Mozeliak: "Some Changes" Coming For Cardinals, But Not A Rebuild

[dmarx114]

Of course, they have more money than God and should use it. George wouldn't have stood for it.

100%. Cashman would've been gone by now and they'd splurge more in FA on players that weren't already theirs.

The Yankees have averaged 98.5 wins over the last 4 non covid seasons.

George must be rolling over in his grave with this level of mediocrity.

If they don't win the WS this season, they will be in the longest drought in franchise history in between WS titles.

Which makes sense since winning the World Series in 2023 is harder than it's ever been.

[dmarx114]

I also don't like being told I'm sooooooo spoiled as a Cardinals fan, particularly when the returns have been diminishing for quite a while now.

Yeah I'm pretty tired of people who try to make this point. It's about time that energy gets pointed back at DeWitt (and I think that's what's happening), because it's obvious to anyone who pays attention that he knows he can more or less phone it in and get 3 million fans through the turnstiles every season. That cynical approach is why his (uniquely blessed) franchise is currently in the cellar.

And to thrill's point, I do follow a number of other sports teams, but the comparison actually makes me more bothered by DeWitt's approach. I graduated from the University of Tennessee in 2011, and many of you probably know how moribund the football program was from about 2009 onward. So many different mistakes were made that contributed to this misery, but incompetent athletic directors making bad choices was really the core of it. A few years ago, UTK hired Danny White to take over as AD, and right from the start, his message has basically been: "This is a proud program with an incredible history and passionate fans, and we're going to do whatever it takes to compete for championships. Losing like this is unacceptable." Obviously there's still progress to be made, but the Vols won a NY6 bowl game last year in Josh Heupel's second year as coach, and Danny has the whole athletics program running in high gear. It's been really impressive to watch.

I compare that to DeWitt (and yes I know a college AD is not exactly like the owner of a professional sports franchise), and all I see is an owner who couldn't possibly be more comfortable resting on his laurels. He and Mo keep talking about being frustrated, but at the moment we don't have any evidence to suggest that the frustration will lead to changed behavior.

This isn't a blip—it's the culmination of a long downward trend. I think fans have every right to be mad.

15 straight years with a winning record, 4 straight post season appearances, 93 wins and a division title last year. What is this fictitious downward trend you speak of?

You know what, if you're fine with that good for you. Some of us expect more, and pounding us with your position over and over is getting to be a tired act. You are smart enough to know that a post season appearance these days is cheap, and their playoff record is dismal. I sometimes suspect that you are related to Mo.

If you expect more, that's fine. I urge you to read TT's post one page back.

That said, my comment above specifically addressed a downward trend. It's just not there.

I also think if the Cards perform poorly again next year, Mo will probably, and understandably, be out of a job, thanks to Alcantara, Gallen, and Arozarena. Those are his major mistakes, and he needs to rectify them.

[TGantz]

I'm a little curious how many of the fans who get really frustrated by this only follow the Cardinals. If you're like me and follow a bunch of different sports, you probably support teams with waaaaaaaaay worse owners and executives and it gives you a greater tolerance for DeMo's mediocre approach. I'm a huge Chicago Bulls fan and Jerry Reinsdorf has made me appreciate Bill DeWitt for what he is, for example. Don't even get me started on the Bears. Might as well be a Pirates fan.

STL City FC has a long and durable tradition of winning during its history. I don't tolerate losing seasons from the teams I follow.

[MrCrowesGarden]

If you believe the playoffs are truly just a coinflip, please bet the underdog in every series.

And is it more impressive to go undefeated in football in the SEC or in the Sun Belt?

[Famous Mortimer]

comparing the yankees to the cardinals is hilarious. like the dodgers, the yankees have the luxury of throwing money at any of their problems. they can spend the most in FA, can spend the most on international players, take penalties, get prospect bumps from the media that allows for them to acquire superstars for prospects that will never see the field, etc. just general stuff like that.

the cardinals on the other hand sign matz and contreras and the franchise is crippled for literally years, almost decades.

but yea...yankees...cardinals....etc

Cardinals had more people attend their games last year than the Yankees did. Bill DeWitt is richer than Hal Steinbrenner. They can absolutely afford to throw money at problems.

[Lesson]

Which makes sense since winning the World Series in 2023 is harder than it's ever been.

Yes, but one could argue expanding the PO field to 12 teams makes it easier than before due to a lower barrier of entry.

[Jedibaracuda]

I also don't like being told I'm sooooooo spoiled as a Cardinals fan, particularly when the returns have been diminishing for quite a while now.

Yeah I'm pretty tired of people who try to make this point. It's about time that energy gets pointed back at DeWitt (and I think that's what's happening), because it's obvious to anyone who pays attention that he knows he can more or less phone it in and get 3 million fans through the turnstiles every season. That cynical approach is why his (uniquely blessed) franchise is currently in the cellar.

And to thrill's point, I do follow a number of other sports teams, but the comparison actually makes me more bothered by DeWitt's approach. I graduated from the University of Tennessee in 2011, and many of you probably know how moribund the football program was from about 2009 onward. So many different mistakes were made that contributed to this misery, but incompetent athletic directors making bad choices was really the core of it. A few years ago, UTK hired Danny White to take over as AD, and right from the start, his message has basically been: "This is a proud program with an incredible history and passionate fans, and we're going to do whatever it takes to compete for championships. Losing like this is unacceptable." Obviously there's still progress to be made, but the Vols won a NY6 bowl game last year in Josh Heupel's second year as coach, and Danny has the whole athletics program running in high gear. It's been really impressive to watch.

I compare that to DeWitt (and yes I know a college AD is not exactly like the owner of a professional sports franchise), and all I see is an owner who couldn't possibly be more comfortable resting on his laurels. He and Mo keep talking about being frustrated, but at the moment we don't have any evidence to suggest that the frustration will lead to changed behavior.

This isn't a blip—it's the culmination of a long downward trend. I think fans have every right to be mad.

15 straight years with a winning record, 4 straight post season appearances, 93 wins and a division title last year. What is this fictitious downward trend you speak of?

You know what, if you're fine with that good for you. Some of us expect more, and pounding us with your position over and over is getting to be a tired act. You are smart enough to know that a post season appearance these days is cheap, and their playoff record is dismal. I sometimes suspect that you are related to Mo.

If you expect more, that's fine. I urge you to read TT's post one page back.

That said, my comment above specifically addressed a downward trend. It's just not there.

I also think if the Cards perform poorly again next year, Mo will probably, and understandably, be out of a job, thanks to Alcantara, Gallen, and Arozarena. Those are his major mistakes, and he needs to rectify them.

I understand in the bitterness of our current predicament, that it is easy to point to trades that haven’t panned out for us. But it isn’t fair to judge trades with the benefit of hindsight. Arozerena was never pegged as a high end prospect and was blocked by Carlson. Gallen wasn’t even a good prospect when we traded him and it took years for him to develop into the pitcher he is now. Alcantra would have made the rotation within a year or two, but we had Flaherty in the system at that point and had to give up something of value to get offense, which we needed at that point.

That being said, I am more upset with Mo for the moves he didn’t make than the ones he did. Mo continues to make lateral or slight upgrades, but never goes for the win despite the fact that we clearly have money and a need, especially in pitching.

And well, outside of Goldy and Arenado (maybe Monty as well), Mo hasn’t made any good trades in years.

[jagtrader]

A more interesting question is whether the guys the Cardinals traded would’ve flourished in St. Louis.

[dmarx114]

Yeah I'm pretty tired of people who try to make this point. It's about time that energy gets pointed back at DeWitt (and I think that's what's happening), because it's obvious to anyone who pays attention that he knows he can more or less phone it in and get 3 million fans through the turnstiles every season. That cynical approach is why his (uniquely blessed) franchise is currently in the cellar.

And to thrill's point, I do follow a number of other sports teams, but the comparison actually makes me more bothered by DeWitt's approach. I graduated from the University of Tennessee in 2011, and many of you probably know how moribund the football program was from about 2009 onward. So many different mistakes were made that contributed to this misery, but incompetent athletic directors making bad choices was really the core of it. A few years ago, UTK hired Danny White to take over as AD, and right from the start, his message has basically been: "This is a proud program with an incredible history and passionate fans, and we're going to do whatever it takes to compete for championships. Losing like this is unacceptable." Obviously there's still progress to be made, but the Vols won a NY6 bowl game last year in Josh Heupel's second year as coach, and Danny has the whole athletics program running in high gear. It's been really impressive to watch.

I compare that to DeWitt (and yes I know a college AD is not exactly like the owner of a professional sports franchise), and all I see is an owner who couldn't possibly be more comfortable resting on his laurels. He and Mo keep talking about being frustrated, but at the moment we don't have any evidence to suggest that the frustration will lead to changed behavior.

This isn't a blip—it's the culmination of a long downward trend. I think fans have every right to be mad.

15 straight years with a winning record, 4 straight post season appearances, 93 wins and a division title last year. What is this fictitious downward trend you speak of?

You know what, if you're fine with that good for you. Some of us expect more, and pounding us with your position over and over is getting to be a tired act. You are smart enough to know that a post season appearance these days is cheap, and their playoff record is dismal. I sometimes suspect that you are related to Mo.

If you expect more, that's fine. I urge you to read TT's post one page back.

That said, my comment above specifically addressed a downward trend. It's just not there.

I also think if the Cards perform poorly again next year, Mo will probably, and understandably, be out of a job, thanks to Alcantara, Gallen, and Arozarena. Those are his major mistakes, and he needs to rectify them.

I understand in the bitterness of our current predicament, that it is easy to point to trades that haven’t panned out for us. But it isn’t fair to judge trades with the benefit of hindsight. Arozerena was never pegged as a high end prospect and was blocked by Carlson. Gallen wasn’t even a good prospect when we traded him and it took years for him to develop into the pitcher he is now. Alcantra would have made the rotation within a year or two, but we had Flaherty in the system at that point and had to give up something of value to get offense, which we needed at that point.

That being said, I am more upset with Mo for the moves he didn’t make than the ones he did. Mo continues to make lateral or slight upgrades, but never goes for the win despite the fact that we clearly have money and a need, especially in pitching.

Where is this mythical money that Mo has to spend but is not spending it?

[jagtrader]

Cardinals’ opening day roster was REALLY thin on Latin American talent, which is another issue.