Mozeliak: "Some Changes" Coming For Cardinals, But Not A Rebuild

[haltz]

I feel like Carlson and Edman are the two guys you can trade who will return back a player with term who’s more than a lottery ticket.

Yeah that must be it. One reason to trade Carlson over O'Neill is that Carlson actually has trade value

I feel like we are selling O'Neill a bit short here. He will be one of the toolsiest players available at the deadline, with a year and a half of control left. Everyone is aware of his downsides, but if he's in a hot streak during the playoffs he can do a lot of damage.

He's gotta be worth at least a controlled, reliable RP with strikeout stuff, or a back-end rotation prospect. Carlson would probably fetch you more due to his years of control, but contenders aren't trading for a Carlson to be the X factor for them in the postseason. In my mind, if you're going to trade him you'll do better in the offseason.

Yeah, O'Neill has the upside obviously, but he's entering his final year of arbitration and won't be cheap and Carlson has 3.5 years (?) of control left with much more surplus value.

Full time, I think they're both ~3 WAR players. If Carlson plays home games in Yankee stadium I'm mentally preparing for him to be another ex-Cardinal OF all-star. He rakes righty and can shoot for that short porch left-handed with mediocre exit velos.

[cardsfantx]

lol this would be so us...

Right-hander Casey Lawrence was released by the Blue Jays recently, according to his transactions tracker at MLB.com. Lawrence triggered an opt-out in his deal, reports Eric Treuden of Jays Journal, which led to him returning to the open market. Treuden adds that the righty is already working on a new deal, with the Cardinals and Yankees seeming to be in the mix.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/07/ ... -jays.html

soon to be 36 year old who sucks and is pitch to contact? we're in there man...

just bring up mcgreevy, graceffo, thomas etc and let them throw some ML innings if we trade monty/flaherty (Thomas is only one currently on the 40 man, but obv trading will open up spots)

What's the huge gap in Lawrence's MLB career between 2018 and 2022? Injury and/or prolonged suckage?

Casey Lawrence sounds like the name of a child actor with a recurring unfunny role on Full House.

Japan in 2019 (where he sucked also), and minors with the blue jays since

[G. Keenan]

I feel like we have this prospect angina every trade deadline. This time last year we were listing prospects that we wouldn't want to include in a Soto trade. Carlson's name came up a lot then. Mo supposedly told Carlson he was safe, such was there estimation of his potential. He's since been extremely blah. Why is it any different this time?

[thrill]

Maybe given our record of trading for pitching prospects who then turn into pumpkins once they enter our farm system, we should focus on major-league ready arms at the deadline or free agents in the offseason?

I mean, who is the last starting pitching prospect we've acquired by draft or through a trade who ended up becoming good as a Cardinal? Waino?

I think Carlos Martinez. Flaherty had a blip, of course.

Lance Lynn got objectively good before we let him go.

Jaime Garcia was really really good too.

Essentially, we're saying there are 6th graders who have gone their entire life without the Cards developing an above average starter of any consistency.

This time last year we were listing prospects that we wouldn't want to include in a Soto trade.

Some of us were.

Carlson's name came up a lot then. Mo supposedly told Carlson he was safe, such was there estimation of his potential. He's since been extremely blah. Why is it any different this time?

I remember thinking when that deadline passed that Mo was betting big on Carlson...and then he stayed a rotation player.

[Popeye_Card]

I feel like Carlson and Edman are the two guys you can trade who will return back a player with term who’s more than a lottery ticket.

Yeah that must be it. One reason to trade Carlson over O'Neill is that Carlson actually has trade value

I feel like we are selling O'Neill a bit short here. He will be one of the toolsiest players available at the deadline, with a year and a half of control left. Everyone is aware of his downsides, but if he's in a hot streak during the playoffs he can do a lot of damage.

He's gotta be worth at least a controlled, reliable RP with strikeout stuff, or a back-end rotation prospect. Carlson would probably fetch you more due to his years of control, but contenders aren't trading for a Carlson to be the X factor for them in the postseason. In my mind, if you're going to trade him you'll do better in the offseason.

Yeah, O'Neill has the upside obviously, but he's entering his final year of arbitration and won't be cheap and Carlson has 3.5 years (?) of control left with much more surplus value.

Full time, I think they're both ~3 WAR players. If Carlson plays home games in Yankee stadium I'm mentally preparing for him to be another ex-Cardinal OF all-star. He rakes righty and can shoot for that short porch left-handed with mediocre exit velos.

I'm mostly just thinking of what contenders want to trade for at the deadline. They are less concerned about years of control and cost at this point, and more looking at which rentals could be the difference maker for them.

I doubt many of the contenders view Carlson as a difference maker in 2023. He's just not a star caliber player, even in his hotter streaks. TON at least provides the upside of being a Arozarena-in-2020 type masher in a postseason hot streak. Or shattering the record for golden sombreros in one postseason. Or simply being hurt again.

I don't know - I just see people being more willing to gamble on O'Neill in the next couple weeks than obtaining more of a project like Carlson. If I were, say, Cleveland looking for HR power in my weak slap-hitting OF, I probably would go TON over Carlson. Or the Giants, or Arizona who are probably looking for an OF upgrade. Maybe AZ would look longer term and prefer Carlson. Or somebody like Atlanta wanting to tighten up the roster longer term.

[MrCrowesGarden]

I wonder if the "we won't trade you, Dylan Carlson" was really "Washington thinks you're [expletive], Dylan Carlson."

[Radbird]

[Popeye_Card]

I'm pretty certain Washington was hung up on Walker, which I guess we'll see if we made the right decision there.

[MrCrowesGarden]

"Dylan Carlson is good" and "Dylan Carlson is better than Tyler O'Neill" are two different statements.

[WAR God]

It’s incredible how the Cardinals were perceived to have a “log jam” at starting quality OFers like what, 12 months ago?

To now a logjam of AAAA crap or guys with various brutal flaws. Be it injuries, lack of bat speed, awful defense.

Mozeliak was simply really late in dealing with this situation. Always trade guys too early instead of too late, in my opinion.