Thank You Mo

[ghostrunner]

Maybe so, and I was pretty critical of not going after Soto for example. Which I imagine might have been from on top. Or at least the limit that prevented it.

But the Brewers ran anywhere from 55-85% of our budget while consistently outperforming us in the regular season. Same for Cleveland many years. If Mo knows his budget and what he can and can’t do, he still has to adjust to the reality. It’s definitely not as simple as “be the Brewers” but that’s what the extra money and GM talent is for.

[Popeye_Card]

I agree that Mo did not demonstrate the skill set that it takes to succeed under a limited payroll system. But at the same time the Cardinals ownership has wanted to have its cake and eat it too.

Cleveland and Milwaukee fans know by now how their franchises operate, and the ownership understands that they are going to struggle to fill half the park most nights despite putting a winning team on the field. The Cardinals still wanted to sell out the park every day, despite their waning willingness to invest in the product. Then shocked when the bottom fell out.

[jagtrader]

It’s not Dewitt’s fault Mozeliak couldn’t evaluate his own players or develop pitching for the last 6-7 years. He and Flores spent first round picks on Thompson, McGreevey, Hjerpe and Davis in a five-year span before his [expletive] teams got him Wetherholt and Doyle.

[Popeye_Card]

Agreed there, other than ownership was clearly accepting of that sustained incompetency.

[ghostrunner]

The Cardinals still wanted to sell out the park every day, despite their waning willingness to invest in the product.

Can we say it waned though? Prior to the last few years? I think there's a longstanding issue of the team not being very creative or landing the big fish. Especially under Mo. They've crept up into the top ten occasionally but the team payroll is typically around 11th, give or take a few. That's not a risk taking payroll and I don't think they've ever operated that way. They've hardly ever had a top 20 player salary before Arenado, and the only time they've had two was Arenado and Goldy in 2021. Prior to them, it had only been Holliday once and Pujols once.

I think there's clearly always been a soft limit. That's always been higher than the Brewers and Guardians, but also lower than about 10 other teams. Any GM/POBO should be running the entire org under that assumption in the long term.

[Spider John]

The decision after Covid to save money by cutting back on scouting, player development and coaching has crippled them for several years.

[Popeye_Card]

The Cardinals still wanted to sell out the park every day, despite their waning willingness to invest in the product.

Can we say it waned though? Prior to the last few years? I think there's a longstanding issue of the team not being very creative or landing the big fish. Especially under Mo. They've crept up into the top ten occasionally but the team payroll is typically around 11th, give or take a few. That's not a risk taking payroll and I don't think they've ever operated that way. They've hardly ever had a top 20 player salary before Arenado, and the only time they've had two was Arenado and Goldy in 2021. Prior to them, it had only been Holliday once and Pujols once.

I think there's clearly always been a soft limit. That's always been higher than the Brewers and Guardians, but also lower than about 10 other teams. Any GM/POBO should be running the entire org under that assumption in the long term.

I think it did. While I think they had always been very hesitant to go over 5 years or $100MM, they reached a point where $100MM doesn’t get you much anymore, and only being willing to go 3 years on pitchers.

Kinda like being stuck in a mindset that $30,000 can buy you a really nice car and you would only be willing to go up to $50,000 for luxury class. Then when you have sticker shock of what cars cost now, you end up buying some crappy used luxury car for $20k instead and being surprised that it doesn’t perform like new.

[GeddyWrox]

Kinda like being stuck in a mindset that $30,000 can buy you a really nice car and you would only be willing to go up to $50,000 for luxury class. Then when you have sticker shock of what cars cost now, you end up buying some crappy used luxury car for $20k instead and being surprised that it doesn’t perform like new.

This is a great analogy.