Scott Rolen for Troy Glaus (Update: Finalized!)

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Magneto2.0
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Re: Scott Rolen for Troy Glaus almost a done deal

Post by Magneto2.0 »

Rolen's cumulative WARP for past 3 seasons: 14.7 in 309 games

Glaus's cumulative Warp for past 3 seasons: 15.2 in 417 games


Rolen is quite obviously the far superior player....so I guess that's not in question as far as the value of the trade...
although, if Rolen continues to hit like he did last year then Glaus does have a good sized advantage offensively...
Rolen hasn't been "quite obviously superior" to Glaus since 2004. That was 4 years ago. Last three seasons, Glaus has proven to be a much, much more dangerous hitter.
the team really isn't any better than it was, and it won't be any worse than it was in 2007 b/c of this trade...
Well, based off recent history, the Cardinals are indeed a significantly better team with Glaus as oppose to Rolen.
the only thing that did happen was that the POTENTIAL of the team in 2008 went down by 2-3 wins, as a 2006 Rolen is better than anything Glaus can give the team...
Eh, I don't agree with this at all. Glaus has had 4 seasons better then that offensively, and has a much better chance to repeat his offensive power numbers, while Rolen will more then likely, never see a 20 HR season again in his life.
but that didn't matter much anyway, as the team probably has less than 15% chance of competing for the division in 08 (CHC, MIL and even CIN are probably all better teams)
True, but that's why we play the games.
it's going to be interesting to watch 3B this year, and we'll really learn to appreciate just how good Rolen had been over the past few seasons over there...REALLY..
The subtle differences wont be apparent. I think we realize that Rolen makes/made plays no other 3rd baseman in history has, but on a day in, day out basis, I don't think we'll recognize it much. Glaus is fairly decent, definitely has a strong arm.

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cardsfansince82
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Re: Scott Rolen for Troy Glaus almost a done deal

Post by cardsfansince82 »

Fat Strat wrote:I actually agree with the idea that Rolen's highest value would have been after he had re-established himself as a hitter, whether that's ST or the deadline. It's always better to trade a heatlhy, productive player at his peak, than someone at his lowest value level. At the same time, if there is some truth (or a serious threat from his agent, etc.) that risk becomes a little less tolerable. It would weigh heavily over how I considered any possible offer I received for Rolen. Thus, when I see a deal come around for a player that can provide a significant impact, I would be much more inclined to take it, cut my loses with the risky player, and move on with a known commodity.
Rolen has the type of injury that will wear down over the course of the season. I don't think there is such a thing as him restoring his value certainly not during spring training and probably not even the first half of a season. It's entirely possible if not probable that he will have a great spring training and start to the season with several months of rest. The question is can he hold up for the whole season and possibly post season. A good start isn't enough to fool another GM into giving up even close to full value for him. He is and always will be for the rest of his career a high risk guy and his trade value is as such.

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clevername
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Re: Scott Rolen for Troy Glaus almost a done deal

Post by clevername »

I thought I remembered something about Glaus playing some SS for the Jays at some point in the last few years. Anyone know anything about that?

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EastonBlues22
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Re: Scott Rolen for Troy Glaus almost a done deal

Post by EastonBlues22 »

Fat Strat wrote: Let me ask you this, Easton, because I think that you have a reasonable stance. If you had pretty good indication that Rolen was going to possibly sit out of ST continuing to demand a trade, would you still want to "risk" playing him?
Yes. If he did sit for awhile, he's going to continue resting and rehabbing his shoulder...that won't hurt his overall value, and it might actually artificially inflate it a little bit once he returns. (If he starts poorly, you can use the excuse that it's because he's rusty). We all know Rolen's a competitor, he wants to play and even takes stupid risks to do so. He's also not dumb, he knows his value is down and the only way to build it is to play. If the Cards establish that they're going to keep him until he builds his value enough to warrant a move, I'm fairly confident that eventually Rolen will make his way to the field and do his thing. It's hard for me to imagine that a man like him would sit out an entire season, or even a significant part of one, just to force management's hand. It never reached that point in Philly, and things were hardly better there than they are here.

On the off chance that he does sit for an extended amount of time, I don't see how that's going to "compromise" our bargaining position anymore than it already is...every team out there is already convinced that we simply *must* move him because of the TLR rift. We don't have to pay any money to Rolen, and the extra time off could only improve the condition of his shoulder. It's also possible that by simply holding onto him and showing that we're not going to move him for pennies on the dollar that we might actually improve the quality of offers to us without him ever setting foot on the field. Unlikely, but showing resolve now certainly won't hurt our bargaining position in the future. This team has nothing serious going for 2008...I really don't see the harm in taking all the time we need to try and milk as much value from this situation as possible.
I actually agree with the idea that Rolen's highest value would have been after he had re-established himself as a hitter, whether that's ST or the deadline. It's always better to trade a heatlhy, productive player at his peak, than someone at his lowest value level. At the same time, if there is some truth (or a serious threat from his agent, etc.) that risk becomes a little less tolerable. It would weigh heavily over how I considered any possible offer I received for Rolen. Thus, when I see a deal come around for a player that can provide a significant impact, I would be much more inclined to take it, cut my loses with the risky player, and move on with a known commodity.
If this team was a borderline contender for 2008, I would probably agree with you. Since we're not, and we're fighting an uphill battle to be competitive in 2009 and beyond, I'm not interested in making any move that is likely to further weaken this already weak team. We should be hellbent on milking every available resource in this organization for maximum value, and that especially includes Rolen since what he did in 2006 is basically irreplaceable on the market or from within. In my mind, we've got a lot of time before the Rolen situation *needs* to be resolved...we should try and use that time to our advantage.

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Ace
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Re: Scott Rolen for Troy Glaus almost a done deal

Post by Ace »

clevername wrote:I thought I remembered something about Glaus playing some SS for the Jays at some point in the last few years. Anyone know anything about that?
Glaus has played 70 innings at the shortstop position, 55 of them in 2006. Not a whole lot of experience, but he also hasn't recorded an error there.

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picasso
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Re: Scott Rolen for Troy Glaus almost a done deal

Post by picasso »

clevername wrote:I thought I remembered something about Glaus playing some SS for the Jays at some point in the last few years. Anyone know anything about that?
My brother drafted him fairly high in a fantasy league because he was eligible to start at SS last year. Don't know how many games he actually played there (and he regretted the strategy).

Magneto2.0
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Re: Scott Rolen for Troy Glaus almost a done deal

Post by Magneto2.0 »

Also, if we're out of it by the trade deadline, Glaus is a better trading chip then Rolen we can use to get some decent prospects from a contender, because he'll probably put up more attractive counting numbers.

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Bo Hart
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Re: Scott Rolen for Troy Glaus almost a done deal

Post by Bo Hart »

clevername wrote:I thought I remembered something about Glaus playing some SS for the Jays at some point in the last few years. Anyone know anything about that?
Yeah, I just read something recently.

They said that when Toronto was playing interleague games, their DH, Shea Hillenbrand, would play third base and Glaus would shift over to short.

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Re: Scott Rolen for Troy Glaus almost a done deal

Post by Fat Strat »

Ace wrote:
clevername wrote:I thought I remembered something about Glaus playing some SS for the Jays at some point in the last few years. Anyone know anything about that?
Glaus has played 70 innings at the shortstop position, 55 of them in 2006. Not a whole lot of experience, but he also hasn't recorded an error there.
I intentionally went after Rolen this year as my starting SS on my fantasy team. Worked well... but only because JJ Hardy was my backup.

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Bo Hart
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Re: Scott Rolen for Troy Glaus almost a done deal

Post by Bo Hart »

Mag, I think you're really selling short the defensive difference. Rolen is so solid defensively that he really blows into the offensive gap more significantly than you're giving credit.

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