Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[Popeye_Card]

They had university presidents admitting that when they increased their prices - admission applications went up. That the perceived value was greater when the cost was higher.

Certainly that's the reason. Not that more and more kids are attending college because it's stressed to them early and often that it's a requirement for most occupations these days.

[Richie Allen]

Is Obama's plan for four-year universities only? Is it a one-time "grant"? What happens if they don't perform the service, or do they have to prior to receiving the grant? Are we really wanting to send more people to four-year schools?

I believe it's a one time grant for any type of college tuition. I know he mentioned specifically that most community college degrees could be covered in their entirety. I'm unaware of whether it can be applied toward trade schools and would be disappointed if it didn't. I believe the community service would come afterward and am not sure if there are measures in place to guarantee that it gets done.

[Gashouse]

I believe the community service would come afterward and am not sure if there are measures in place to guarantee that it gets done.

I hope that's not the case. The service should be done first. How hard is it going to be for a kid to put in 100 hours during the summer between HS and college, or even throughout senior year? I mean, that's 2 1/2 weeks of work. There's no reason it can't be done before getting the money.

[Freed Roger]

What I fail to understand about the university system is how quickly tuition rates are going up. I mean, it's doubled over the past 10 years, far outpacing inflation. I understand that schools need to be higher tech to keep up, but it doesn't cost *that* much more to educate an individual student now vs. 10 years ago. Especially with the escalating money coming in from NCAA sports as well.

I don't understand it either. I really don't know what enrollments have looked like at most schools, but I'd say most record pretty stable enrollments if not increases.

Maybe the universities realize that most students coming out of HS don't need to go that route and are trying to head off the eventual downturn of enrollments. Or maybe they're just greedy.

And really, in fairness, it does cost more due to less state aid being given. Take Missouri for example and look what state schools got in the 90's compared to now. Not that I'm taking a side, but it does cost more. (Did I just contradict myself?)

I'm getting off thread topic, but those rising tuition costs are crazy -especially to us with high school kids.

Though I think we do need to beef up some aid programs for tuition, I know that throwing money at colleges is not the solution. Govt gives students more aid then it seems colleges just raise tuition and it all nets down to the same. I don't think the way colleges spend money gets much scrutiny, especially state institiutions. No incentive for colleges to control their wasteful spending as long as they can market well to prospective students (not necessarily with better education but more so with fancy campuses, winning sports teams, and advertising).

also keep in mind, as the cost of college has gone thru the roof, where has the value of a college diploma gone ?

[BW23]

Is Obama's plan for four-year universities only? Is it a one-time "grant"? What happens if they don't perform the service, or do they have to prior to receiving the grant? Are we really wanting to send more people to four-year schools?

I believe it's a one time grant for any type of college tuition. I know he mentioned specifically that most community college degrees could be covered in their entirety. I'm unaware of whether it can be applied toward trade schools and would be disappointed if it didn't. I believe the community service would come afterward and am not sure if there are measures in place to guarantee that it gets done.

Thanks. Very much a "meh" thing, for me. I'm not a fan of one-time grants. I understand it helps students gain access, but it won't help with overall student costs in the long run, particularly in the case of what they owe.

And the community service should come before they get it. Of course, most going to four-year schools are already doing 50-100 hours for certain scholarships now. Depending on what schools are eligible for this grant, it may just end up being more government money that doesn't really increase access or affect affordability.

I'd be disappointed, too, if it didn't include community colleges, private technical schools or career and technical schools. That's the areas where most jobs are.

Keep in mind, too, that colleges take into account new and higher aid when deciding on tuition increases. It's a really bad cycle right now.

[Richie Allen]

I believe the community service would come afterward and am not sure if there are measures in place to guarantee that it gets done.

I hope that's not the case. The service should be done first. How hard is it going to be for a kid to put in 100 hours during the summer between HS and college, or even throughout senior year? I mean, that's 2 1/2 weeks of work. There's no reason it can't be done before getting the money.

Well, there always seems to be an obsession with catching the few abusers of the system, often at the expense of everyone else that could benefit. I'm not sure of the chronology of the plan but either way, I could see the overall benefit, even if a certain percentage didn't follow through on any, or part of, the community service. I suppose it could be abused much like the many former students that haven't repaid their student loans.

[Richie Allen]

I can't remember where I read this, I think it was money magazine? Anyway, it was just last month they had a huge article about the skyrocketing cost of education.

They had university presidents admitting that when they increased their prices - admission applications went up. That the perceived value was greater when the cost was higher.

Yeah, universities have to be the most backward run businesses I've ever seen. When I got my undergraduate degree, the tuition actually went up per hour as you consumed more of their goods. 12 to 16 credit hours per semester were one fixed price but if you went over 16 hours, the price per credit hour actually went up. So you were penalized for purchasing more from the school.

[BW23]

What I fail to understand about the university system is how quickly tuition rates are going up. I mean, it's doubled over the past 10 years, far outpacing inflation. I understand that schools need to be higher tech to keep up, but it doesn't cost *that* much more to educate an individual student now vs. 10 years ago. Especially with the escalating money coming in from NCAA sports as well.

I don't understand it either. I really don't know what enrollments have looked like at most schools, but I'd say most record pretty stable enrollments if not increases.

Maybe the universities realize that most students coming out of HS don't need to go that route and are trying to head off the eventual downturn of enrollments. Or maybe they're just greedy.

And really, in fairness, it does cost more due to less state aid being given. Take Missouri for example and look what state schools got in the 90's compared to now. Not that I'm taking a side, but it does cost more. (Did I just contradict myself?)

I'm getting off thread topic, but those rising tuition costs are crazy -especially to us with high school kids.

Though I think we do need to beef up some aid programs for tuition, I know that throwing money at colleges is not the solution. Govt gives students more aid then it seems colleges just raise tuition and it all nets down to the same. I don't think the way colleges spend money gets much scrutiny, especially state institiutions. No incentive for colleges to control their wasteful spending as long as they can market well to prospective students (not necessarily with better education but more so with fancy campuses, winning sports teams, and advertising).

also keep in mind, as the cost of college has gone thru the roof, where has the value of a college diploma gone ?

++++

Very well stated. (See, we can agree. ) I said basically the same thing about tuition going up as students receive more aid.

The last time I saw some statistics, only about 32% of jobs that are available require a four-year degree. Now, I'm not knocking four-year schools. I have enough degrees from them. But, the focus in our country (and I really don't know where it should start) should be on getting students the technical training that's needed to get kids (and adults) into the higher tech fields where there's a shortage of workers. Whether it's JUCO, private technical schools or the career and technical schools (vo-techs), more students need to take advantage of these. It's cheaper than four-year schools for sure, in most cases. And it would greatly help the economy as it gets students into high-paying, high-tech jobs in 2 years or less.

[Richie Allen]

Is Obama's plan for four-year universities only? Is it a one-time "grant"? What happens if they don't perform the service, or do they have to prior to receiving the grant? Are we really wanting to send more people to four-year schools?

I believe it's a one time grant for any type of college tuition. I know he mentioned specifically that most community college degrees could be covered in their entirety. I'm unaware of whether it can be applied toward trade schools and would be disappointed if it didn't. I believe the community service would come afterward and am not sure if there are measures in place to guarantee that it gets done.

Thanks. Very much a "meh" thing, for me. I'm not a fan of one-time grants. I understand it helps students gain access, but it won't help with overall student costs in the long run, particularly in the case of what they owe.

And the community service should come before they get it. Of course, most going to four-year schools are already doing 50-100 hours for certain scholarships now. Depending on what schools are eligible for this grant, it may just end up being more government money that doesn't really increase access or affect affordability.

I'd be disappointed, too, if it didn't include community colleges, private technical schools or career and technical schools. That's the areas where most jobs are.

Keep in mind, too, that colleges take into account new and higher aid when deciding on tuition increases. It's a really bad cycle right now.

I think the plan is probably directed more at kids from broken homes, very poor families, etc., that might not otherwise even have a chance at considering school. Middle class kids living in their parents suburb home, in my opinion, rarely have an excuse for not going to school if it's something they really desire.

[Richie Allen]

Though I think we do need to beef up some aid programs for tuition, I know that throwing money at colleges is not the solution. Govt gives students more aid then it seems colleges just raise tuition and it all nets down to the same. I don't think the way colleges spend money gets much scrutiny, especially state institiutions. No incentive for colleges to control their wasteful spending as long as they can market well to prospective students (not necessarily with better education but more so with fancy campuses, winning sports teams, and advertising).

also keep in mind, as the cost of college has gone thru the roof, where has the value of a college diploma gone ?

The value of the typical college degree is probably at an all time low, although it may be more necessary than ever to get a good job (if that makes any sense).

And I agree that colleges spend money in ridiculous ways. My alma matter is spending a fortune tearing down the only piece of history on the campus (Robertson Memorial Field House) to (they say) update their facilities in an attempt to compete for more blue-chip basketball prospects.