Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[PujolJunkie]

Huge article at 538. Wow.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/ ... black.html

So suppose that by tonight, black voters have increased to 30 percent of Georgia's registered voter pool. Plugging that 30 percent number in, McCain's advantage is a mere 1 point.

Think these numbers sound unreasonable? Early voting is underway in Georgia, and according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, black voters do not represent 30 percent of Georgia's early voter turnout. Instead, they represent almost 40 percent. Although early voting figures can be idiosyncratic , Barack Obama certainly seems to be having little trouble getting his vote out. Indeed, Barack Obama is winning Georgia right now.

[jim]

I just saw some young campaing guy for McCain on one of these new programs defending one of the McCain ads. It took something out of context, and when presented with the entire comment he still wouldn't back down on his interpretation of it.

It is unbelievable how these a-holes can look in the mirror in the morning and not puke.

[G. Keenan]

This is just awesome:

In short, the McCain plan makes no sense at all, unless you have faith that the magic of the marketplace can solve all problems. And Mr. McCain does: a much-quoted article published under his name declares that “Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/06/opini ... an.html?em

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Here's a question regarding Capital Gains and Death taxes:

What are obama's and McCain's thoughts on these? I can't find much on the websites. Obama says he would do away with the cg tax for business....but what about individuals?

[clement]

Here's a question regarding Capital Gains and Death taxes:

What are obama's and McCain's thoughts on these? I can't find much on the websites. Obama says he would do away with the cg tax for business....but what about individuals?

I believe Obama would raise the max capital gains tax to 20% for wealthiest individuals (not everyone). McCain would leave it at 15%.

Not sure about the death tax issue.

I've never understood why capital gains should not be taxed. In my opinion if anything capital gains should be taxed more than actual earnings. In general, to benefit from capital gains, you have to have capital to invest. It's money earned without having to actually do any work. Why shouldn't it be taxed at the same rate as any other income earned? Are people not going to try to earn capital gains simply because they know the earnings will be taxed? I don't think so.

The estate tax is another thing. Generally estates have already been taxed so I'm not sure why it should be re-taxed when someone dies and leaves it to their heirs.

[cpebbles]

I read the sentence about his confession in the POW camp as I was scanning, and it turned my stomach to be honest. Maybe I read it out of context, but once I saw that then I clicked away from it in horror.

imo, it is not worth reading.

You didn't read it out of context. There is an awful lot of character assassination in the article, and that is one of the more blatant smears. The only reason I say it's worth reading is that it looks at and dismantles the political persona he's built for himself, and no other mainstream publication is going to question McCain on any of it.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Here's a question regarding Capital Gains and Death taxes:

What are obama's and McCain's thoughts on these? I can't find much on the websites. Obama says he would do away with the cg tax for business....but what about individuals?

I believe Obama would raise the max capital gains tax to 20% for wealthiest individuals (not everyone). McCain would leave it at 15%.

Not sure about the death tax issue.

I've never understood why capital gains should not be taxed. In my opinion if anything capital gains should be taxed more than actual earnings. In general, to benefit from capital gains, you have to have capital to invest. It's money earned without having to actually do any work. Why shouldn't it be taxed at the same rate as any other income earned? Are people not going to try to earn capital gains simply because they know the earnings will be taxed? I don't think so.

The estate tax is another thing. Generally estates have already been taxed so I'm not sure why it should be re-taxed when someone dies and leaves it to their heirs.

I would probably vote democratic if it wasn't for the capital gains tax and death tax.

And, this is why I think it's horrible. People are working for their money and it is being taxed as they make it. After those taxes, they have less money. What they do with that should be up to them. Investing it in the stock market or housing or wherever doesn't guarantee anything. And, that money could very well be lost. You make it sound as if they're not working for it. And, while they aren't out digging ditches, I'm sure they won't be sleeping too well tonight either.

I understand that taxes the wealthy more so than the average joe. But, there are also people that, imo, shouldn't be taxed at all. And, this is why. Let's say you're self-employed, have no HR or COO to your company. You go through the headache of doing your own taxes every year. You are resopnsible with your money but not wealthy. Around the age of 60, you've managed to put away ~ 1 million dollars. It sounds like a lot, but if you live for another 20 years, that's not that much money. And, it's really only 850K, not 1 million. If you take the 15% rate and bump it up to even higher (I've heard some say 30%), that's an extra 100-150K that the gov is taking that is going to significantly affect your lifestyle. And, it is punishing those that have been responsible with their money....and it's already been taxed.

And the death tax pisses me off equally as much especially if it is going to be around 45%. And, the main reason it upsets me is that in many cases, kids are going to be forced to sell their parents house/land/assets to pay for it. Imagine a farmer with 2,000 acres and say the acres are $1500 each and the death tax is 40%. The kids of the farmer are going to have to have either 1.2 million to pay uncle sam or have to sell ~ 800 acres. That, imo, is just not right. The farmer has been paying taxes on that land his whole life and now the gov is going to come in and force his kids to sell it to pay the gov.....it's just wrong.

Other than those two issues, I'm really like Obama more and more but will probably still vote for McCain....not that it matters much at this point. IT looks like Obama has it won.

[Arthur Dent]

I understand that taxes the wealthy more so than the average joe. But, there are also people that, imo, shouldn't be taxed at all. And, this is why. Let's say you're self-employed, have no HR or COO to your company. You go through the headache of doing your own taxes every year. You are resopnsible with your money but not wealthy. Around the age of 60, you've managed to put away ~ 1 million dollars. It sounds like a lot, but if you live for another 20 years, that's not that much money. And, it's really only 850K, not 1 million. If you take the 15% rate and bump it up to even higher (I've heard some say 30%), that's an extra 100-150K that the gov is taking that is going to significantly affect your lifestyle. And, it is punishing those that have been responsible with their money....and it's already been taxed.

If you put the money in a retirement account, you are already exempt from paying these taxes. In any case, I don't see how this tax is "punishing" people any more than taxing regular income "punishes" people for working. Tax revenue is needed to fund government, and basing the amount on income (including investment income) seems to be about the fairest way to do it. Having a special lower rate for investments heavily favors the wealthy who have much more extra money with which to make investments.

And the death tax pisses me off equally as much especially if it is going to be around 45%. And, the main reason it upsets me is that in many cases, kids are going to be forced to sell their parents house/land/assets to pay for it. Imagine a farmer with 2,000 acres and say the acres are $1500 each and the death tax is 40%. The kids of the farmer are going to have to have either 1.2 million to pay uncle sam or have to sell ~ 800 acres. That, imo, is just not right. The farmer has been paying taxes on that land his whole life and now the gov is going to come in and force his kids to sell it to pay the gov.....it's just wrong.

There has always been a large exemption in the estate tax (it was ~$1,000,000 per person before the Bush tax cuts, and Democrats offered to increase that amount.) All this stuff about calling it the "death tax" and talking about family farms was a marketing fraud. Virtually no family farms were hit by the tax. Only the absolute wealthiest estates (about 2%) paid any estate tax at all. Personally, I think the tax is a good idea to prevent the formation of a society of inherited wealth. There are many good things (say the Ford Foundation) that have been created to avoid paying the tax.

[Freed Roger]

Here's a question regarding Capital Gains and Death taxes:

What are obama's and McCain's thoughts on these? I can't find much on the websites. Obama says he would do away with the cg tax for business....but what about individuals?

I believe Obama would raise the max capital gains tax to 20% for wealthiest individuals (not everyone). McCain would leave it at 15%.

Not sure about the death tax issue.

I've never understood why capital gains should not be taxed. In my opinion if anything capital gains should be taxed more than actual earnings. In general, to benefit from capital gains, you have to have capital to invest. It's money earned without having to actually do any work. Why shouldn't it be taxed at the same rate as any other income earned? Are people not going to try to earn capital gains simply because they know the earnings will be taxed? I don't think so.

The estate tax is another thing. Generally estates have already been taxed so I'm not sure why it should be re-taxed when someone dies and leaves it to their heirs.

I would probably vote democratic if it wasn't for the capital gains tax and death tax.

And, this is why I think it's horrible. People are working for their money and it is being taxed as they make it. After those taxes, they have less money. What they do with that should be up to them. Investing it in the stock market or housing or wherever doesn't guarantee anything. And, that money could very well be lost. You make it sound as if they're not working for it. And, while they aren't out digging ditches, I'm sure they won't be sleeping too well tonight either.

I understand that taxes the wealthy more so than the average joe. But, there are also people that, imo, shouldn't be taxed at all. And, this is why. Let's say you're self-employed, have no HR or COO to your company. You go through the headache of doing your own taxes every year. You are resopnsible with your money but not wealthy. Around the age of 60, you've managed to put away ~ 1 million dollars. It sounds like a lot, but if you live for another 20 years, that's not that much money. And, it's really only 850K, not 1 million. If you take the 15% rate and bump it up to even higher (I've heard some say 30%), that's an extra 100-150K that the gov is taking that is going to significantly affect your lifestyle. And, it is punishing those that have been responsible with their money....and it's already been taxed.

And the death tax pisses me off equally as much especially if it is going to be around 45%. And, the main reason it upsets me is that in many cases, kids are going to be forced to sell their parents house/land/assets to pay for it. Imagine a farmer with 2,000 acres and say the acres are $1500 each and the death tax is 40%. The kids of the farmer are going to have to have either 1.2 million to pay uncle sam or have to sell ~ 800 acres. That, imo, is just not right. The farmer has been paying taxes on that land his whole life and now the gov is going to come in and force his kids to sell it to pay the gov.....it's just wrong.

Other than those two issues, I'm really like Obama more and more but will probably still vote for McCain....not that it matters much at this point. IT looks like Obama has it won.

Death tax affects a tiny portion of the population. less than 5%. Capital Gains tax -well why should investment income be so favored over wage income? Suppose a trust fund baby inherits millions upon millions free of estate tax. Then suppose all their income is tax free as well because its the magic investment income. under this scenario, some of the wealthiest then would pay no tax whatsoever.

I have no problem with taxing estates. jeesh who cares? Death Tax is a nonsense term used to scare people that will never have to pay them into fearing them. Double tax is more double talk too. Why isn't it considered double tax when we pay social security and income tax on our wages. Then if your like me you have to spend all that money to make ends meet and in the process of spending you pay sales tax, property tax and gas taxes on top of it.

I guess you can call Bush's tax cuts during a deficit and war as not really a tax cut at all but actually a tax deferral - or a "tax on the unborn children"

Taxes are not fair. never will be. But I am forever skeptical of the snake oil salesmen that have magic solutions to make taxes fair. Steve Forbes and GOP friends.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

If you put the money in a retirement account, you are already exempt from paying these taxes. In any case, I don't see how this tax is "punishing" people any more than taxing regular income "punishes" people for working. Tax revenue is needed to fund government, and basing the amount on income (including investment income) seems to be about the fairest way to do it. Having a special lower rate for investments heavily favors the wealthy who have much more extra money with which to make investments.

It doesn't punish any more than working, the money has already been taxed though. It shouldn't be taxed again. I did say that it favors the wealthy, but it also "punishes" those that are relying on their investments to retire, especially the non-wealthy people out there. You can't deny that.

And, we could have a long discussion about the fairest way to tax people and obviously you need tax revenues. My preferred method would be a consumption tax, but that's neither here nor there.

There has always been a large exemption in the estate tax (it was ~$1,000,000 per person before the Bush tax cuts, and Democrats offered to increase that amount.) All this stuff about calling it the "death tax" and talking about family farms was a marketing fraud. Virtually no family farms were hit by the tax. Only the absolute wealthiest estates (about 2%) paid any estate tax at all. Personally, I think the tax is a good idea to prevent the formation of a society of inherited wealth. There are many good things (say the Ford Foundation) that have been created to avoid paying the tax.

I didn't know about the 1 million/person. Thanks for that. I still don't think it's right to be able to take a family's wealth after the head of the household dies if they've been paying taxes as Uncle Sam requires throughout their life.