Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[PujolJunkie]

who do we hate next?

The group that makes us feel most uncomfortable is my guess.

We'll probably get over our irrational hatred of Muslims at some point. After all, the Japanese bombed the harbor and those feelings are gone.

I highly doubt the irrational hatred of Muslims will go away. It's one thing to deal with the Japanese. It's another to deal with a group of people who actually have extremely fundamental differences when it comes to religion. Remember. The Muslim religion is hateful, all-killing and sick. The Japanese were just.. y'know.. silly!

[Leroy]

Probably accountants.

[cpebbles]

Whoever attacks us on our own land next. That and blacks.

And yet here's a guy that is both black and Muslim heritage that will be the next president. Guess you can't please everyone.

I know first class is roomy, but it's absolutely amazing that the entire Muslim world fit on those airplanes.

[sighyoung]

Probably accountants.

[obucard]

Whoever attacks us on our own land next. That and blacks.

And yet here's a guy that is both black and Muslim heritage that will be the next president. Guess you can't please everyone.

I know first class is roomy, but it's absolutely amazing that the entire Muslim world fit on those airplanes.

I wouldn't know; I can't afford first class.

[BW23]

Whoever attacks us on our own land next. That and blacks.

And yet here's a guy that is both black and Muslim heritage that will be the next president. Guess you can't please everyone.

I know first class is roomy, but it's absolutely amazing that the entire Muslim world fit on those airplanes.

First of all, I think my post that you quoted showed that I wasn't being serious.

But why do you think there is hatred of Muslims? When did it start? For those who have this hatred, I'd guess it started just over 7 years ago.

[clement]

Random catch-up:

On Huckabee:
If you think the far right are unhappy with McCain's lack of viciousness, they'd be even unhappier with Huckabee. I certainly don't agree with Huckabee's rhetoric on social issues and while tax reform is desperately needed in the US, a national sales tax would be the worst way to reform it. But aside from that, Huckabee was too level-headed, too compassionate, and yes, too liberal to be a better candidate than McCain. Romney would have probably been their best bet.

On the ugliness that's rearing its heads at the McCain/Palin rallies
It's very ugly and it's very scary. I think it was R.Freed who brought up the domestic terrorism problems we were facing pre 9/11 and it was by and large coming from individuals and groups from the far right. Whooping people up with the kind of anger that we're seeing at these rallies is fomenting this kind of extremism. BW23: Obama and McCain may both be appealing to a certain level of "stupidity", but one of them is appealing to a dangerous xenophobic stupidity and the other is a naive hopeful one. I'll take hopeful naivete over dangerous xenophobia anyday. At least McCain is finally defending Obama against some of the more ludicrous things shouted out at his "townhall meetings". But instead of responding to that supporter saying that Obama is a good family man, he should have said that that kind of racist rhetoric is not welcome at his rallies and that the person should either shut up or leave. I'm seriously embarrassed for my country when clips like that are played on television and people are dropping their jaws saying, "Is that kind of rhetoriic really that prevalent in the U.S.? I mean to the point where it's okay to say something like that in front of potentially your next president and he doesn't seem that bothered with it?" Sure, McCain seems to be trying to stop his supporters from making these kinds of ridiculous claims, but he's trying to put the genie back in the bottle. He and his hockey mom running mate have been drumming up fervor by scaring people into believing that Obama pals around with terrorists and extremists - the implication for the more ignorant of his supporters being that he is secretly a terrorist and extremist himself who is just painting a false impression of himself so he can seize power and destroy America.

With all the talk on FNC about Islamofascism, I wonder when anyone is going to talk about Christianofascism. While I'm not suggesting that there is any level of similarity in terms of magnitude, if we look at terrorist and hate-related acts in this county (pre AND post 9/11), there is an alarming amount of it coming from right-wing fascist groups who are at least tangentially motivated by their extreme religious views. Think of abortion clinic bombings and shootings, bombs at gay bars, Rev. Phelps and his ridiculous movement, and recently there have been several religion-motivated mass shootings (a church in Tennessee that was deemed too "liberal", a guy in Washington state who went on shooting rampage and killed 6 people in the name of God come to mind). Sure these people are fringe nuts maybe even with mental problems, but the hateful and provacative rhetoric coming out of these Republican rallies are perhaps the tamed down equivalent of the al qaeda rhetoric that turns ordinary Muslims into suicide bombers. With 9/11 becoming a more distant memory, and the likelihood of the country having a Democratic Congress being led by a black man with a Muslim-sounding name and I wonder where, when, and from whom the next big domestic terrorist attack happens. And will we see a resurgence of right-wing domestic terror organizations like the KKK of the past?

On family squabbles over politics
Boy can I relate to you planet. My sister and I both have had a very tumultuous relationship with my mother over the past several years. She has shifted from being a pretty moderate person (she voted for Clinton in 1996) to a really far right wing conservative (particularly on foreign policy). It's really difficult to have conversations without discussing current events (for all of us), but they too often degenerate into shouting matches and a few times have gotten ugly. I've been working really hard to try to avoid getting too deep into these debate with her and trying to moderate my own opinions. But it's hard because sadly she pulls her talking points right off of Bill O'Reilly's show and I feel like there is nothing more dumbing down of political discourse than using Fox News' talking points as your main arguments.

On Palin and Troopergate
So while McCain and Palin are making character and character assassination their main focal point, you've got one who was rebuked by the Senate in the 1990s and the other has just been found to have abused her power and violated an ethics law as governor this year. Personally I think Palin's Troopergate is about 10th down on my list of concerns about her. But McCain knew that she was under investigation for these charges when he selected her, and knowing that this could have been the outcome, it is just one more reason why he should be held accountable for making easily the most laughable VP choice in the last 50 years (which of course is saying a lot since Dan Quayle is in that group).

...

But yeah, the next president is inheriting an unprecedented mess and will have a hard time coming out of 4 years looking very good. Of course it really depends on how long this depression/recession lasts.

But I heard Fred Barnes (conservative) talking yesterday about McCain's campaign and he said he isn't so worried about McCain as he is about the entire Republican party. This economic crisis has Americans questioning the value of capitalism and free markets and you've got prominent Republicans talking about government takeovers, nationalizing banks, dramatically increasing regulations, and bailing out corporations.

[Freed Roger]

Just curious, but I would like to know what Obama has done in his background that make you believe he will bring about wonderful change? I am not saying that McCain is the wonderful answer either, I just want to know what you think he has done that has been successful.

Obama brings hope to the table. He' smart and educated. Diverse well-traveled man. Well-respected state senator, US senator. Constitutional lawyer. I see his conduct during this campaign and YES his ability to speak as a positive sign. We currently have a president that can't speak and relate to anyone other than a few cronies. Did you know GWB has made several statements about the financial crisis - but nobody listens to him at home nor abroad. We are like a country without a leader. We sorely need a leader. I could say more but I'm outta here.

anybody with a long history in politics couldn't be elected in this Rove era of politics anyway.. Gore and Kerry had much more qualifications, but it became their downfall. that's the way the GOP made this political game, so why should they complain?

Ok he is bright and articulate, and George Bush sucks, but what has he done?

on Hawaii state champion team in basketball. he's not a Cub fan and that's doing something. x he inhaled back in college. other than that he hasn't done anything.

oh - he was right about the war in Iraq.

in all seriousness, I wouldn't have minded Obama beefing up his creds for a few more years. but again-with way politics are since Rove, Obama had to make his move now, or they'd have four more years of smears to conjure up on him.

in this same vein, your guy Bush didn't have much experience and he's been prez....yikes- maybe I need to rethink this

I'm not forfeiting my right to rationally scrutinize Obama should he become president - especially if the dems control all of congress too. I hope you and BW do the same. my personal belief is our country is best served when the two parties check and balance each other. (actually I wish we had more than two parties. ) Lincoln was famous for accepting opposing viewpoints in his cabinet. Its something our country has sorely lacked for a long time.

[PujolJunkie]

Random catch-up:

On Huckabee:
If you think the far right are unhappy with McCain's lack of viciousness, they'd be even unhappier with Huckabee. I certainly don't agree with Huckabee's rhetoric on social issues and while tax reform is desperately needed in the US, a national sales tax would be the worst way to reform it. But aside from that, Huckabee was too level-headed, too compassionate, and yes, too liberal to be a better candidate than McCain. Romney would have probably been their best bet.

Hit the nail on the head. I personally really, REALLY like Huckabee. I just wish his policies were more centrist or left. I really like him though, as a person.

[BW23]

clement...take it up with ICE. He said that McCain/Palin are "targeting" these crazies. I've read plenty of ridiculous things on this thread. At least one per page. Maybe closer to 8 per page. But that's at the top. Easily.

My response was one that was ridiculous intentionally to show just how bad ICE's was. Well, I did believe a lot of what I said.

Yes, Obama brings about hope for some reason. I don't get it.

And I don't have a problem with what the campaign itself is saying about Obama. I just think they should have done it much earlier and with more on Wright. I think it says a lot about Obama's judgment, or lack thereof, when you see who he pals around with (at least until he's told not to do so). I think Wright says a lot more about Obama than Ayers. A lot.

But so do a lot of his statements that he truly believes in that he has to take back when he's told not to be so liberal. Like with abortion. Or Iran.

I'm just amazed at how people buy whatever Obama spoon feeds them. The tax thing is a perfect example. It doesn't add up. And when it hurts the economy, I'll bite my tongue so as not to say, "I told you so."

I've never been more worried about the direction our country is headed in than I am now.