Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[planet planet]

i think the biggest appeal regarding Obama is that he isn't republican and is in no way aligned with Bush.

And I think Hillary is still wondering what the appeal is too. She's not a Republican and aligned with Bush.

I think Hillary is still doing the autopsy of her primary run. Obama's political organization, money raising, and strategy were outstanding, and she made crucial mistakes--including assuming that she didn't need to worry about caucuses, and that she'd have everything wrapped up by Super Tuesday.

Yeah it's just one of those things. Hilary made a few mistakes for sure. But Obama just really caught fire and captured the imagination of and inspired a lot of people. It happens. Usually people like this don't end up being as successful as Obama was (thinking of people like Gary Hart, John Anderson), but he built just a big enough lead on it to take him to the nomination. It also helped him (not her) that a lot of the early primary states favored him (disproportionately southern states), and the whole problem with Michigan and Florida delegates didn't help her. Plus what sigh said about the caucuses (I think Obama won all but one of the caucus states).

I truly believe, even given all the situational advantages she would have had, Hillary would not have won. Perhaps in a squeaker with the current economic state, but I think you underestimate the people that dislike her on both sides of the dial. I'm thankful Obama's the candidate.

[GatewaySnayke]

I'm just amazed at how people buy whatever Obama spoon feeds them. The tax thing is a perfect example. It doesn't add up. And when it hurts the economy, I'll bite my tongue so as not to say, "I told you so."

What are you saying "doesn't add up" and hurts the economy? Raising taxes? I doubt it. We went through boom periods before George W. Bush came along and saved the struggling upper class.

I think Wright says a lot more about Obama than Ayers. A lot.

So by that token, associating yourself with a preacher who WAS a terrorist in Kenya (Thomas Muthee), who forced a "witch" to leave town unless she converted to Christianity, who prayed for God to send money to Sarah Palin's campaign says something. A lot. Right? And what does it say for someone who was "very proud" to have the support of a guy who would utter these words:

"I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they are—were recipients of the judgment of God for that. The newspaper carried the story in our local area, that was not carried nationally, that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came."

Says a lot. Right?

I will never understand why it's OK for ministers like Hagee, Falwell (in the past), etc. to be homophobic, anti-Catholic, anti-Semitic, anti-Muslim and obviously so full of hatred for people who don't share their views and Christians act like that's fine and dandy.

[GatewaySnayke]

I truly believe, even given all the situational advantages she would have had, Hillary would not have won. Perhaps in a squeaker with the current economic state, but I think you underestimate the people that dislike her on both sides of the dial. I'm thankful Obama's the candidate.

It'd be a completely different campaign. We never would have been exposed to Sarah Palin, John McCain wouldn't have been lying his ass off -- destroying his once good image -- and this thread would probably be about 440 pages shorter.

[clement]

I truly believe, even given all the situational advantages she would have had, Hillary would not have won. Perhaps in a squeaker with the current economic state, but I think you underestimate the people that dislike her on both sides of the dial. I'm thankful Obama's the candidate.

Well I obviously disagree but we'll never know. Keep in mind that George W. Bush had an incredible amount of dislike, as did Bill Clinton, and both won elections (in Clinton's case, quite handily). Reagan was also reviled by a pretty significant portion of the population and he won two landslides. High negatives often are offset by high positives. Further, I think the anti-Hilary sentiment is really strong only in certain parts of the country - especially the South and the Midwest, two areas that are largely Republican anyway.

Also, this board is a poor measure of the support for Hilary. Hilary does better with women and this board is predominantly male and not only male but sports fan male (I know you're not a man planet, but you're not an ordinary woman simply by virtue of your being on this board - in fact I'd bet that most of the women on this board feel more comfortable around a group of guys thana group of gals, but I digress. )

Hilary would have had no trouble connecting in places like Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania (all considered to be battleground states pre-election). Hilary might not have put places like NC and Indiana in play, but she would probably have locked up Florida and put places like West Virginia in play.

But as snayke pointed out, Palin would probably never have been chosen if Hilary were the candidate. But it's also very possible that Hilary would have selected Obama as her running mate.

I probably agree that Obama has a better chance to win with a bigger margin than Hilary would have had (simply because he is appealing to certain states that wouldn't normally be pro-Democrat), but I think she would have won this election given the current situation. Without the economic collapse, who knows? But even Obama was locked in a neck-and-neck race before the economy collapsed and Palin tried to open her mouth and nothing came out.

[Jocephus]

"I just have to rely on the good judgment of the voters not to buy into these negative attack ads. Sooner or later, people are going to figure out if all you run is negative attack ads you dont have much of a vision for the future or you're not ready to articulate it." - John McCain, the NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, 2/21/2000

[TimeForGuinness]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

I'll just say this...the stereotype that Muslims get because of certain radical sects is no different than the stereotype that all right wing Christians are abortion clinic bombers.

Throw them all to the lions, right?

Look in the mirror.

[Leroy]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

I'll just say this...the stereotype that Muslims get because of certain radical sects is no different than the stereotype that all right wing Christians are abortion clinic bombers.

Throw them all to the lions, right?

Look in the mirror.

After 9,265 or whatever posts, you finally make a good one. Good post TFG.

[TimeForGuinness]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

I'll just say this...the stereotype that Muslims get because of certain radical sects is no different than the stereotype that all right wing Christians are abortion clinic bombers.

Throw them all to the lions, right?

Look in the mirror.

After 9,265 or whatever posts, you finally make a good one. Good post TFG.

I'm drunk...it happens once in awhile

[cpebbles]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

I'll just say this...the stereotype that Muslims get because of certain radical sects is no different than the stereotype that all right wing Christians are abortion clinic bombers.

Throw them all to the lions, right?

Look in the mirror.

Except that I have literally never seen this case actually made. The only serious mentions of it are brought up as parallels to illustrate the absurdity of painting other religions with such broad and unfair strokes.

Full disclosure: Personally, I have a certain level of intellectual disappointment in those who place their faith in any organized religion.

[TimeForGuinness]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

I'll just say this...the stereotype that Muslims get because of certain radical sects is no different than the stereotype that all right wing Christians are abortion clinic bombers.

Throw them all to the lions, right?

Look in the mirror.

Except that I have literally never seen this case actually made. The only serious mentions of it are brought up as parallels to illustrate the absurdity of painting other religions with such broad and unfair strokes.

Full disclosure: Personally, I have a certain level of intellectual disappointment in those who place their faith in any organized religion.

Of course the case is hardly made when the majority of the US population is Christian...no one wants to think their God/beliefs are wrong.

Personally, I can appreciate why the English kicked out all nutcases 300+ years ago.

/Jesuit Catholic
//Going to bed