Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[clement]

I'll just say this...the stereotype that Muslims get because of certain radical sects is no different than the stereotype that all right wing Christians are abortion clinic bombers.

Throw them all to the lions, right?

Look in the mirror.

I don't agree with this at all. First of all, you've compared the stereotyping that goes on for all Muslims (a billion worldwide, a few million or so in the U.S.) to the stereotyping of what you define as "right wing" Christians. Secondly, I know of nobody here or elsewhere who stereotypes right wing Christians as abortion clinic bombers.

[TimeForGuinness]

I'll just say this...the stereotype that Muslims get because of certain radical sects is no different than the stereotype that all right wing Christians are abortion clinic bombers.

Throw them all to the lions, right?

Look in the mirror.

I don't agree with this at all. First of all, you've compared the stereotyping that goes on for all Muslims (a billion worldwide, a few million or so in the U.S.) to the stereotyping of what you define as "right wing" Christians. Secondly, I know of nobody here or elsewhere who stereotypes right wing Christians as abortion clinic bombers.

Well that's your opinion, and we'll agree to disagree. Maybe I should have used "Fundamental Christians" instead...but they are the same to me. Catholic, Protestant, etc...Fundamentalism is wrong no matter what religion you are.

[clement]

I'll just say this...the stereotype that Muslims get because of certain radical sects is no different than the stereotype that all right wing Christians are abortion clinic bombers.

Throw them all to the lions, right?

Look in the mirror.

I don't agree with this at all. First of all, you've compared the stereotyping that goes on for all Muslims (a billion worldwide, a few million or so in the U.S.) to the stereotyping of what you define as "right wing" Christians. Secondly, I know of nobody here or elsewhere who stereotypes right wing Christians as abortion clinic bombers.

Well that's your opinion and we'll agree to disagree. Maybe I should have used "Fundamental Christians" instead...but they are the same to me. Catholic, Protestant, etc...Fundamentalism is wrong no matter what religion you are.

I think the voice from the left is disproportionately antagonistic toward fundamentalists Christians and not Muslims (or any other religion) is because Muslims in America are really not trying to legislate anything on non-Muslims. That's a function of the predominance of Christianity in America obviously, and if I lived in Malaysia I would be frustrated by all of the laws that are created based on Islamic religion. It's interesting though, in places like Malaysia and Indonesia, you have actual laws that apply only to Muslims, but that non-Muslims do not have to abide by. I wish you could do that in the U.S. sometimes. Just not allow registered Christians to have abortions or marry someone of the same sex.

[Richie Allen]

Full disclosure: Personally, I have a certain level of intellectual disappointment in those who place their faith in any organized religion.

I feel somewhat the same but then again I've found that most of the brilliant minds of the past were deeply religious individuals.

[EastonBlues22]

Full disclosure: Personally, I have a certain level of intellectual disappointment in those who place their faith in any organized religion.

I've often wondered why so many people fall into a mindset similar to this.

Surely there are a great many people of faith who are passive intellectually...they simply stop asking questions, stop seeking answers, and stop thinking for themselves (if they ever did in the first place). However, there are obviously plenty of non-believers who fall into this category as well. Presumably these non-believers must also be intellectual disappointments.

What's more, there are just as obviously a great many people of faith (just as there are non-believers) who are active intellectuals. They ask intelligent questions, seek the answers to those questions, and think for themselves. The experiences and perceptions of one individual might lead to radically different conclusions than those reached by anothers, just as the questions they seek answers to might lead their lives in radically different directions, but that doesn't make their intellectual journey/life path of one inherently inferior to the other. Only a mind rigidly confined by its own dissenting beliefs would label another such individual as an intellectual disappointment.

What one believes is much less important than how one comes to believe in it. It's a grave intellectual mistake to simply look at the end result and thus judge the process that led to it.

[Hungary Jack]

God might be my co-pilot, but I drive my own [expletive] bus.

[sighyoung]

Full disclosure: Personally, I have a certain level of intellectual disappointment in those who place their faith in any organized religion.

I've often wondered why so many people fall into a mindset similar to this.

Surely there are a great many people of faith who are passive intellectually...they simply stop asking questions, stop seeking answers, and stop thinking for themselves (if they ever did in the first place). However, there are obviously plenty of non-believers who fall into this category as well. Presumably these non-believers must also be intellectual disappointments.

What's more, there are just as obviously a great many people of faith (just as there are non-believers) who are active intellectuals. They ask intelligent questions, seek the answers to those questions, and think for themselves. The experiences and perceptions of one individual might lead to radically different conclusions than those reached by anothers, just as the questions they seek answers to might lead their lives in radically different directions, but that doesn't make their intellectual journey/life path of one inherently inferior to the other. Only a mind rigidly confined by its own dissenting beliefs would label another such individual as an intellectual disappointment.

What one believes is much less important than how one comes to believe in it. It's a grave intellectual mistake to simply look at the end result and thus judge the process that led to it.

Nicely put.

Last year, my neighbor was a theology student at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Theology students work just as much, if not more, than a typical grad student in other disciplines. In addition, he and his family were exceptionally kind to us, and were thoughtful, intellectually curious, and genuinely decent people. They worked continually to improve themselves and help others.

We probably disagreed about many things, and certainly he and his wife wanted to remain focused on their faith. But they did much more to reach across racial lines, regional differences, and political differences than most folks I've encountered in my life.

[cpebbles]

In short, I think by definition logic cannot lead to faith, and belief in the supernatural defies deductive reasoning. If the religious have arrived at their beliefs rationally, why is it they are still using the same few obvious logical fallacies to promote them?

Anyway, this is going off on a tangent. I just wanted to mention this because I do have anti-religious sentiments and I wanted to reinforce that they are anti-religious, not anti-Christian.

[KyCardinalFan]

I'll say it. I'm not that crazy about Obama. I would have preferred Hillary Clinton.

But I generally support his viewpoints and positions on issues and policies. And certainly far moreso than the Republican alternative. I also think he is a smart and pragmatic guy and I think he will do a fine job as president. I have faith that he will surround himself with the right kind of advisors and that he will be good at listening to, assessing, and integrating differing points of views. I think he will also be good at working with people who disagree with him, rather than just ignoring or marginalizing them. A lot of this is based on the impressions he has left in me during these two years of campaigning. Sure you can question whether he'll do all of these things, just like Bush talked about instituting compassionate conservatism, working with foreign countries, not dictating the US way to the rest of the world, and then he didn't do any of those things. But I have to have faith that he will because if not, my only other alternative is John McCain who has moved so far to the right on so many issues and abandoned so many of his former "maverick" principles that I find I have almost no policy agreements with him other than wanting to reduce pork spending (which is a good idea, but not enough to shift a vote on, much less balance a budget).

This. Me. All of it.

I believed Bush in 2000 when he said he was a uniter, but wasn't duped in 2004.

I'm going to believe Obama when he says he doesn't have to be the smartest person in the room, that he will seek expertise from others in areas he thinks he's lacking and that he encourages critical thinkers, not agreeable advisors. Biden's choice is a step toward that.

I was open to McCain earlier in the summer, but he (or his campaign advisors) turned me off as the campaign wore on. He is not the same as in 2000 and Palin's pick sealed it for me. She was a totally irresponsible, campaign-first decision.

And while Hillary is polarizing, it is mostly with the Republican base. Everything about this presidential campaign would've been different. It's a shame we can't go back a few pages, change our answers and see how the story ends with each new choice. But I think Hillary still would hold the lead; economic hardships historically go against the incumbent and domestic issues historically go to Democrats.

[Radbird]

Just plain weird.

Rage rising on the McCain campaign trail

At a rally in Minnesota on Friday, a woman told McCain: "I don't trust Obama. I have read about him and he's an Arab."

McCain shook his head and said, "No ma'am, no ma'am. He's a decent family man...[a] citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues. That's what this campaign is all about."

One man at the rally said he was "scared of an Obama presidency." McCain later told the man he should not fear Obama.

"I want to be president of the United States, and I don't want Obama to be," he said. "But I have to tell you, I have to tell you, he is a decent person, and a person that you do not have to be scared as President of the United States."

McCain's response was met with boos from the crowd.

When asked about these outbursts, McCain campaign manager Rick Davis said that he didn't know who those people were and if they were there as supporters or to disrupt the rallies.