Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[docellis]

As far as fight this fight when it affects me, its just one of my beliefs and im not going to vote against my beilefs for short term financial gain.

What if you never make the money you're beliefs want you to protect?

This was on Larry King or something last night. Maybe it was Bill Maher, not sure. They said "Republicans believe in dreams" and that basically many of them vote for things that don't apply to them, and sometimes hurt them - in the hopes they will be rich "someday".

I just don't understand the concept of worrying about someone else's money.

[Freed Roger]

had to dvr the 3rd debate and just got done watching it.

Are we punishing people for success now? Do good have a successful business and were gona raise your taxes. Make to much were gona aise your taxes. Screw up, get in debt over your head, cant pay your mortgage? Well lets reward you by bailing you out.

I live in a small town with two families that everyone knows as the walefare families. No jobs, as far as i know never made an attempt to get a job. They both live in the nicest houses on their respectivie blocks. Surrounded by families that go work hard everyday, but cant afford anything nicer cause they themselves actually have to pay their own bills.

And when did healthcare suddenly become a right? Weve got to get a ballanced budget and if we cant afford things like healthcare then it shouldnt be in there. First ballance the budget and if we can include healthcare great if not then there isnt money for it. There is always the option of not carrrying any healthcare.

We've got a massive deficit. Either we start to pay for it, or jeopardize our future further. Its not a matter of if we have to pay taxes, its who pays them and when.

As Jim points out, taxes for upper income people and investment income are at historically low levels. Even Obama's proposed reversion to old rates won't make them high on a historic levels.

Its never going to be fair on who pays the taxes. But its also never fair on who recieves the benefit of govt spending. its a misconception that the majority of the money goes to welfare. The bulk of govt spending goes to upper classes. for example, a welfare person who never drives, never benefits from highways. How does someone benefit from all the govt spending in Iraq, unless you happen to be a mullah getting payola or connected to halliburton etc.

I could go on an on. better stop and enjoy the day.

[Fat Strat]

If you don't, but you aspire to, as we all do I guess, why not wait to fight this fight once it actually affects you? I'm not trying to be snarky.

My problem has long been that it WILL affect you. The guy who makes 250k hires Joe the Plumber or Sally the Secretary, or whoever. I know I've said this a dozen times before on here, but it bears repeating. In the middle of a serious economic decline the worst thing you can do is raise taxes on the employing and investing class. IMO, it's a recipe for higher unemployment and for investers to go into survival mode (and many are already there).

Right now we need people willing to spend money, invest money, hire people, and create jobs. This sounds elementary, but the more money you take out of the economy in taxes the less money you have available to grow the economy.

Spreading the wealth around... You really think the extra $150-$250 that the middle and lower classes will see under Obama's plan will really impact the economy? They'll have $10 more in every paycheck.

Meanwhile, the guy who hires those people will see thousands less every pay period. An employer who makes $300k will make roughly $30k less (I think it's a 15% increase over what McCain's will be, but I could be wrong), which is roughly equivalent to one of his salaried employees or two of his wage employees. What do you think that guy will do to make up the difference? (Hopefully, like Joe Biden, his patriotic duty. But, call me a skeptic).

[jim]

I used 250k because i think that is where Obama's plan has your taxes going up. I assumed that was what you were talking about (re: punishing success).

Do you make (net or gross) anywhere near that?

If you do, then I guess I can understand your sentiment.

If you don't, but you aspire to, as we all do I guess, why not wait to fight this fight once it actually affects you? I'm not trying to be snarky.

I just don't get people like "Joe the Plumber" who says the exact same thing in all these soundbites. He makes $35k or whatever but he is fighting the fight for those making $250k. I don't get that.

Ya I know where you came up with the 250K "joe the plumber" could easily be in the same position as i am. Say i go out and spend $250K on seed, fuel and fertilizer. Bad year and my sales come out to $260K, do my taxes get increased because i made more the 250K? Even though only 10K of that went in my pocket?

From what ive read it appears that way, but im not sure thats why im asking.

As far as fight this fight when it affects me, its just one of my beliefs and im not going to vote against my beilefs for short term financial gain.

Me too, and I fully understand that my opinion that health converage is a right might hit me in the pocketbook without personal gain. I have excellent health coverage through my employer.

[jim]

If you don't, but you aspire to, as we all do I guess, why not wait to fight this fight once it actually affects you? I'm not trying to be snarky.

My problem has long been that it WILL affect you. The guy who makes 250k hires Joe the Plumber or Sally the Secretary, or whoever. I know I've said this a dozen times before on here, but it bears repeating. In the middle of a serious economic decline the worst thing you can do is raise taxes on the employing and investing class. IMO, it's a recipe for higher unemployment and for investers to go into survival mode (and many are already there).

Right now we need people willing to spend money, invest money, hire people, and create jobs. This sounds elementary, but the more money you take out of the economy in taxes the less money you have available to grow the economy.

Spreading the wealth around... You really think the extra $150-$250 that the middle and lower classes will see under Obama's plan will really impact the economy? They'll have $10 more in every paycheck.

Meanwhile, the guy who hires those people will see thousands less every pay period. An employer who makes $300k will make roughly $30k less (I think it's a 15% increase over what McCain's will be, but I could be wrong), which is roughly equivalent to one of his salaried employees or two of his wage employees. What do you think that guy will do to make up the difference? (Hopefully, like Joe Biden, his patriotic duty. But, call me a skeptic).

So trickle down...

No thanks, been there done that.

[Diddy]

As far as fight this fight when it affects me, its just one of my beliefs and im not going to vote against my beilefs for short term financial gain.

What if you never make the money you're beliefs want you to protect?

This was on Larry King or something last night. Maybe it was Bill Maher, not sure. They said "Republicans believe in dreams" and that basically many of them vote for things that don't apply to them, and sometimes hurt them - in the hopes they will be rich "someday".

I just don't understand the concept of worrying about someone else's money.

I beileve that this country was built on dreams.

I just dont see how its right to take something from someone who worked for it and give it to someone else who screwed up. Maybe if we have some accountability people woudlnt be needing handouts from people who make over 250K.

[Diddy]

It's net profit, not gross sales that gets taxed. Earnings are taxed.

Thats good but i read something the other day, cant find it now, that sounded to me like it was gross sales.

[jim]

As far as fight this fight when it affects me, its just one of my beliefs and im not going to vote against my beilefs for short term financial gain.

What if you never make the money you're beliefs want you to protect?

This was on Larry King or something last night. Maybe it was Bill Maher, not sure. They said "Republicans believe in dreams" and that basically many of them vote for things that don't apply to them, and sometimes hurt them - in the hopes they will be rich "someday".

I just don't understand the concept of worrying about someone else's money.

I beileve that this country was built on dreams.

I just dont see how its right to take something from someone who worked for it and give it to someone else who screwed up. Maybe if we have some accountability people woudlnt be beeding handouts from people who make over 250K.

The economic policies of creating a bigger gap between the rich and poor are dream crushing policies, and we have seen them in full force over the past 8 years.

Again, Obama is simply putting back the tax rate that Bush gave the wealthy. Bush CUT taxes on the wealthy so that fat's idea of hiring Sally the secretary giving her a job to fuel the economy. It didn't work, they just took the money and ran.

Putting the tax rate back that BUSH cut.

[Arthur Dent]

I'm actually getting worried about all this talk about balanced budgets and cutting spending. The time to do that was when the economy was doing OK. Now that we're facing what is likely to be a nasty recession, we're going to need stimulus. That means we shouldn't be squeamish about more borrowing.

[Diddy]

I just dont see how its right to take something from someone who worked for it and give it to someone else who screwed up. Maybe if we have some accountability people woudlnt be needing handouts from people who make over 250K.

And i guess thats just what it comes down to to me. Not eveyone can have everything, were not a socialist country yet . We need to go back to being happy with what we have and working hard for more, not being unhappy with what we dont have. We have to teach accountability to people, people have to learn how to manage their own money. Their are people that need help, im not opposed to that, i just think we throw a blanket over anyone with debt and say look at all these people. How many of them would the proposed projects (either parties) have prevented from being in the position that they are in now? I feel strongly that its a small number. If you bail people out and give them money they are just going to spend more and get into a bigger hole next time because someone else will just bail them out again. Well bail them out and they will be right back in the sam position because there is no accountability.