Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[GatewaySnayke]

Other than that, it's not really a game-changer other than the fact that it's being talked about and analyzed to death on TV.

It may not be a game-changer, but he absolutely eviscerated the Republican party and he essentially called them out on their xenophobia. I thought he was at his best on MTP. Pragmatic, thoughtful and clearly not afraid to stand up to his own party.

The right-wing hate machine went to bed seething tonight and will no doubt be prepared to tear Powell apart tomorrow.

Christopher Buckley, Colin Powell...who is next?

[Tarver]

Well, according to Pat "this is a HUUUGE problem for the Democrats" Buchanan, Powell only endorsed Obama because he's black and has put skin color above the Republican party.

I guess Christopher Buckley was passing all those years.

yeah, some people aren't recognizing how big of a political seismic shift Buckley's endorsement represents.

[jim]

I respect Colin Powell and I'm glad he has endorsed Obama... But he, like McCain now apparently, allowed others that he disagreed with to make him say and do and silently go along with things that he did not believe in or agree with. For that, he will always have a strike in my book as far as leadership capabilities go. He should have resigned before ever being dragged in front of the UN and he should have taken his opposition to the Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice doctrine on Iraq to the public.

His endorsement of Obama is newsworthy because he is a conservative, because he is very highly respected by people of all stripes, and because he articulates some very convincing reasons for his endorsement. Other than that, it's not really a game-changer other than the fact that it's being talked about and analyzed to death on TV.

I don't know the whole story here. It's possible Powell made a mistake and did something he felt was wrong. It's also possible that Powell supressed personal feelings and assumed the best doing his best to be a loyal soldier. Like the rest of us, I suspect Powell was flat out lied to.

[ghostrunner]

Other than that, it's not really a game-changer other than the fact that it's being talked about and analyzed to death on TV.

It may not be a game-changer, but he absolutely eviscerated the Republican party and he essentially called them out on their xenophobia. I thought he was at his best on MTP. Pragmatic, thoughtful and clearly not afraid to stand up to his own party.

The right-wing hate machine went to bed seething tonight and will no doubt be prepared to tear Powell apart tomorrow.

Christopher Buckley, Colin Powell...who is next?

I think you're overestimating the right's opinion of Powell before yesterday. He took heat from the more extreme righties for even suggesting that they go to the UN before Iraq. He's always been for affirmative action, and I don't think he's ever been viewed as a true conservative by most of them. I doubt any of them are surprised about the endorsement.

As far as Buckley goes, he's WFB's son, but he's primarily an essayist and novelist. I wasn't even sure he considered himself a conservative before he came out for Obama. He's never been a big voice in the "conservative" political movement and I'd say he and Powell were both on the fringe of that movement. I'm not saying it's not important, because it reflects where centrist Americans are coming from and has a minor effect on the public perception of the Republican party. But I think it's rather meaningless as far as it relates to the conservative base.

[heyzeus]

It's offensive to me when someone says "powell only endorsed obama because they're both black." Would you ever say "Bush only endorsed McCain because he's white"?

[Tarver]

I think you're overestimating the right's opinion of Powell before yesterday. He took heat from the more extreme righties for even suggesting that they go to the UN before Iraq. He's always been for affirmative action, and I don't think he's ever been viewed as a true conservative by most of them. I doubt any of them are surprised about the endorsement.

As far as Buckley goes, he's WFB's son, but he's primarily an essayist and novelist. I wasn't even sure he considered himself a conservative before he came out for Obama. He's never been a big voice in the "conservative" political movement and I'd say he and Powell were both on the fringe of that movement. I'm not saying it's not important, because it reflects where centrist Americans are coming from and has a minor effect on the public perception of the Republican party. But I think it's rather meaningless as far as it relates to the conservative base.

true, but a glance at the obits in any local newspaper will tell you where the conservative base is going.

[Leroy]

McCain is white?

[Freed Roger]

Post subject: Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin
clement wrote:
I respect Colin Powell and I'm glad he has endorsed Obama... But he, like McCain now apparently, allowed others that he disagreed with to make him say and do and silently go along with things that he did not believe in or agree with. For that, he will always have a strike in my book as far as leadership capabilities go. He should have resigned before ever being dragged in front of the UN and he should have taken his opposition to the Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice doctrine on Iraq to the public.

His endorsement of Obama is newsworthy because he is a conservative, because he is very highly respected by people of all stripes, and because he articulates some very convincing reasons for his endorsement. Other than that, it's not really a game-changer other than the fact that it's being talked about and analyzed to death on TV.

agreed with Clem's view on the Powell endorsement.

but in light of my feeling below, this is probably the most important thing to come from Powell's interview Sunday

"I'm also troubled by, not what Senator McCain says, but what members of the party say, and it is permitted to be said. Such things as 'Well you know that Mr. Obama is a Muslim.' Well the correct answer is 'He is not a Muslim, he's a Christian, he's always been a Christian.' But the really right answer is 'What if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country?' The answer is 'No. That's not America.' Is there something wrong with some 7-year old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she can be president? Yet I have heard senior members of my own party drop the suggestion he's a Muslim and he might be associated with terrorists. This is not the way we should be doing it in America.
"I feel strongly about this particular point because of a picture I saw in a magazine. It was a photo-essay about troops who were serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. And one picture at the tail end of this photo essay was of a mother in Arlington Cemetery and she had her head on the headstone of her son's grave. And as the picture focused in you can see the writing on the headstone. And it gave his awards, Purple Heart, Bronze Star, showed that he died in Iraq, gave his date of birth, date of death. He was 20 years old. And then at the very top of the headstone, it didn't have a Christian cross, it didn't have a Star of David. It had a crescent and a star of the Islamic faith. And his name was Karim Rashad Sultan Khan. And he was an American, he was born in New Jersey, he was 14 at the time of 9/11 and he waited until he can go serve his counrty and he gave his life."

I bet if you are Muslim-American right now you are feeling pretty [expletive]-ty about this election. all this hatred and nonsense about Obama being a Muslim. There is such openly accepted and brazen racism that Obama feels compelled to defend himself against this BS of him being a Muslim. Like if he had anything other than a Christian faith, he wouldn't be eligible to president.

It makes me uneasy the way Muslims are openly hated in this country. who do we hate next?

[GatewaySnayke]

McCain is white?

Very.

I watched MSNBC this morning at around 9 am or so and Rush Limbaugh had already reacted by saying he's going to research Powell's previous endorsements for someone who is like Obama except white.

I think you're overestimating the right's opinion of Powell before yesterday. He took heat from the more extreme righties for even suggesting that they go to the UN before Iraq. He's always been for affirmative action, and I don't think he's ever been viewed as a true conservative by most of them. I doubt any of them are surprised about the endorsement.

Maybe so, but I'd be surprised if I am. It just seems like Colin Powell is the Republican version of Obama (well, was). And if they aren't surprised at what Powell said, I don't understand the point of bringing up race.

I'm not saying it's not important, because it reflects where centrist Americans are coming from and has a minor effect on the public perception of the Republican party. But I think it's rather meaningless as far as it relates to the conservative base.

Well, I wasn't trying to equate Buckley getting tossed to someone like Ann Coulter, but it's reflecting on the current party and where it's headed. In a time when people are less concerned about fear tactics and gay people, the current GOP keeps moving in that direction. Maybe they like losing elections now.

[Leroy]

It makes me uneasy the way Muslims are openly hated in this country. who do we hate next?

Coal miners.