Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[Popeye_Card]

Post subject: Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin
clement wrote:
I respect Colin Powell and I'm glad he has endorsed Obama... But he, like McCain now apparently, allowed others that he disagreed with to make him say and do and silently go along with things that he did not believe in or agree with. For that, he will always have a strike in my book as far as leadership capabilities go. He should have resigned before ever being dragged in front of the UN and he should have taken his opposition to the Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice doctrine on Iraq to the public.

His endorsement of Obama is newsworthy because he is a conservative, because he is very highly respected by people of all stripes, and because he articulates some very convincing reasons for his endorsement. Other than that, it's not really a game-changer other than the fact that it's being talked about and analyzed to death on TV.

agreed with Clem's view on the Powell endorsement.

but in light of my feeling below, this is probably the most important thing to come from Powell's interview Sunday

"I'm also troubled by, not what Senator McCain says, but what members of the party say, and it is permitted to be said. Such things as 'Well you know that Mr. Obama is a Muslim.' Well the correct answer is 'He is not a Muslim, he's a Christian, he's always been a Christian.' But the really right answer is 'What if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country?' The answer is 'No. That's not America.' Is there something wrong with some 7-year old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she can be president? Yet I have heard senior members of my own party drop the suggestion he's a Muslim and he might be associated with terrorists. This is not the way we should be doing it in America.
"I feel strongly about this particular point because of a picture I saw in a magazine. It was a photo-essay about troops who were serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. And one picture at the tail end of this photo essay was of a mother in Arlington Cemetery and she had her head on the headstone of her son's grave. And as the picture focused in you can see the writing on the headstone. And it gave his awards, Purple Heart, Bronze Star, showed that he died in Iraq, gave his date of birth, date of death. He was 20 years old. And then at the very top of the headstone, it didn't have a Christian cross, it didn't have a Star of David. It had a crescent and a star of the Islamic faith. And his name was Karim Rashad Sultan Khan. And he was an American, he was born in New Jersey, he was 14 at the time of 9/11 and he waited until he can go serve his counrty and he gave his life."

I bet if you are Muslim-American right now you are feeling pretty [expletive]-ty about this election. all this hatred and nonsense about Obama being a Muslim. There is such openly accepted and brazen racism that Obama feels compelled to defend himself against this BS of him being a Muslim. Like if he had anything other than a Christian faith, he wouldn't be eligible to president.

It makes me uneasy the way Muslims are openly hated in this country. who do we hate next?

Plus plus.

While I appreciated McCain dispelling the rumors at his stump speech, the way he did it was kind of demeaning to Muslims/Arabs at the same time. The exchange was like this:

Woman: "I have heard about him. He is not Amer....he's an Arab..."
McCain: [takes back microphone] "No, ma'am. He is a decent family man. A citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues..."

I know what he meant--that he's not a Muslim extremist terrorist--but the way it was said was as if Arabs are not "decent family men". Nor citizens.

[jim]

Post subject: Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin
clement wrote:
I respect Colin Powell and I'm glad he has endorsed Obama... But he, like McCain now apparently, allowed others that he disagreed with to make him say and do and silently go along with things that he did not believe in or agree with. For that, he will always have a strike in my book as far as leadership capabilities go. He should have resigned before ever being dragged in front of the UN and he should have taken his opposition to the Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice doctrine on Iraq to the public.

His endorsement of Obama is newsworthy because he is a conservative, because he is very highly respected by people of all stripes, and because he articulates some very convincing reasons for his endorsement. Other than that, it's not really a game-changer other than the fact that it's being talked about and analyzed to death on TV.

agreed with Clem's view on the Powell endorsement.

but in light of my feeling below, this is probably the most important thing to come from Powell's interview Sunday

"I'm also troubled by, not what Senator McCain says, but what members of the party say, and it is permitted to be said. Such things as 'Well you know that Mr. Obama is a Muslim.' Well the correct answer is 'He is not a Muslim, he's a Christian, he's always been a Christian.' But the really right answer is 'What if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country?' The answer is 'No. That's not America.' Is there something wrong with some 7-year old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she can be president? Yet I have heard senior members of my own party drop the suggestion he's a Muslim and he might be associated with terrorists. This is not the way we should be doing it in America.
"I feel strongly about this particular point because of a picture I saw in a magazine. It was a photo-essay about troops who were serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. And one picture at the tail end of this photo essay was of a mother in Arlington Cemetery and she had her head on the headstone of her son's grave. And as the picture focused in you can see the writing on the headstone. And it gave his awards, Purple Heart, Bronze Star, showed that he died in Iraq, gave his date of birth, date of death. He was 20 years old. And then at the very top of the headstone, it didn't have a Christian cross, it didn't have a Star of David. It had a crescent and a star of the Islamic faith. And his name was Karim Rashad Sultan Khan. And he was an American, he was born in New Jersey, he was 14 at the time of 9/11 and he waited until he can go serve his counrty and he gave his life."

I bet if you are Muslim-American right now you are feeling pretty [expletive]-ty about this election. all this hatred and nonsense about Obama being a Muslim. There is such openly accepted and brazen racism that Obama feels compelled to defend himself against this BS of him being a Muslim. Like if he had anything other than a Christian faith, he wouldn't be eligible to president.

It makes me uneasy the way Muslims are openly hated in this country. who do we hate next?

Plus plus.

While I appreciated McCain dispelling the rumors at his stump speech, the way he did it was kind of demeaning to Muslims/Arabs at the same time. The exchange was like this:

Woman: "I have heard about him. He is not Amer....he's an Arab..."
McCain: [takes back microphone] "No, ma'am. He is a decent family man. A citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues..."

I know what he meant--that he's not a Muslim extremist terrorist--but the way it was said was as if Arabs are not "decent family men". Nor citizens.

He should have told the women to leave his rally, and to take her vote with her.

btw - anyone see SNL with the skit with that lady? This campaign is turning every SNL episode into an instant classic.

[BW23]

Post subject: Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin
clement wrote:
I respect Colin Powell and I'm glad he has endorsed Obama... But he, like McCain now apparently, allowed others that he disagreed with to make him say and do and silently go along with things that he did not believe in or agree with. For that, he will always have a strike in my book as far as leadership capabilities go. He should have resigned before ever being dragged in front of the UN and he should have taken his opposition to the Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice doctrine on Iraq to the public.

His endorsement of Obama is newsworthy because he is a conservative, because he is very highly respected by people of all stripes, and because he articulates some very convincing reasons for his endorsement. Other than that, it's not really a game-changer other than the fact that it's being talked about and analyzed to death on TV.

agreed with Clem's view on the Powell endorsement.

but in light of my feeling below, this is probably the most important thing to come from Powell's interview Sunday

"I'm also troubled by, not what Senator McCain says, but what members of the party say, and it is permitted to be said. Such things as 'Well you know that Mr. Obama is a Muslim.' Well the correct answer is 'He is not a Muslim, he's a Christian, he's always been a Christian.' But the really right answer is 'What if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country?' The answer is 'No. That's not America.' Is there something wrong with some 7-year old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she can be president? Yet I have heard senior members of my own party drop the suggestion he's a Muslim and he might be associated with terrorists. This is not the way we should be doing it in America.
"I feel strongly about this particular point because of a picture I saw in a magazine. It was a photo-essay about troops who were serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. And one picture at the tail end of this photo essay was of a mother in Arlington Cemetery and she had her head on the headstone of her son's grave. And as the picture focused in you can see the writing on the headstone. And it gave his awards, Purple Heart, Bronze Star, showed that he died in Iraq, gave his date of birth, date of death. He was 20 years old. And then at the very top of the headstone, it didn't have a Christian cross, it didn't have a Star of David. It had a crescent and a star of the Islamic faith. And his name was Karim Rashad Sultan Khan. And he was an American, he was born in New Jersey, he was 14 at the time of 9/11 and he waited until he can go serve his counrty and he gave his life."

I bet if you are Muslim-American right now you are feeling pretty [expletive]-ty about this election. all this hatred and nonsense about Obama being a Muslim. There is such openly accepted and brazen racism that Obama feels compelled to defend himself against this BS of him being a Muslim. Like if he had anything other than a Christian faith, he wouldn't be eligible to president.

It makes me uneasy the way Muslims are openly hated in this country. who do we hate next?

Plus plus.

While I appreciated McCain dispelling the rumors at his stump speech, the way he did it was kind of demeaning to Muslims/Arabs at the same time. The exchange was like this:

Woman: "I have heard about him. He is not Amer....he's an Arab..."
McCain: [takes back microphone] "No, ma'am. He is a decent family man. A citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues..."

I know what he meant--that he's not a Muslim extremist terrorist--but the way it was said was as if Arabs are not "decent family men". Nor citizens.

Yeah. He forgot to say he was clean. Oh, that's meant in regards to him being black not Muslim. Sorry.

[Arthur Dent]

this is probably the most important thing to come from Powell's interview Sunday

"I'm also troubled by, not what Senator McCain says, but what members of the party say, and it is permitted to be said. Such things as 'Well you know that Mr. Obama is a Muslim.' Well the correct answer is 'He is not a Muslim, he's a Christian, he's always been a Christian.' But the really right answer is 'What if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country?' The answer is 'No. That's not America.' Is there something wrong with some 7-year old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she can be president? Yet I have heard senior members of my own party drop the suggestion he's a Muslim and he might be associated with terrorists. This is not the way we should be doing it in America.
"I feel strongly about this particular point because of a picture I saw in a magazine. It was a photo-essay about troops who were serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. And one picture at the tail end of this photo essay was of a mother in Arlington Cemetery and she had her head on the headstone of her son's grave. And as the picture focused in you can see the writing on the headstone. And it gave his awards, Purple Heart, Bronze Star, showed that he died in Iraq, gave his date of birth, date of death. He was 20 years old. And then at the very top of the headstone, it didn't have a Christian cross, it didn't have a Star of David. It had a crescent and a star of the Islamic faith. And his name was Karim Rashad Sultan Khan. And he was an American, he was born in New Jersey, he was 14 at the time of 9/11 and he waited until he can go serve his counrty and he gave his life."

This is the photo Powell was referring to:

[Jocephus]

i voted today

[BW23]

i voted today

How many times?

[PujolJunkie]

[/youtube]

[Freed Roger]

While I appreciated McCain dispelling the rumors at his stump speech, the way he did it was kind of demeaning to Muslims/Arabs at the same time. The exchange was like this:

Woman: "I have heard about him. He is not Amer....he's an Arab..."
McCain: [takes back microphone] "No, ma'am. He is a decent family man. A citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues..."

I know what he meant--that he's not a Muslim extremist terrorist--but the way it was said was as if Arabs are not "decent family men". Nor citizens.

Yeah. He forgot to say he was clean. Oh, that's meant in regards to him being black not Muslim. Sorry.

I have no idea where you're going with this one BW.

On this encounter with McCain and the lady - maybe McCain didn't intend to make it a backdoor insult of Muslims, but the strategy of his party has been clearly to take advantage of anti-Muslim sentiment. Are you denying that BW?

Powell is the first prominent person from either party with the courage to say "So what if he was a Muslim?"

Perhaps Obama could have said more about this himself, but he's not in a position to do so. From this summer -here's an encounter on the Muslim topic. should he be denouncing the claim that he's a Muslim, or denouncing the inherent racism in such claims? best described as a no-win situation for him:

LEONARD PITTS, MIAMI HERALD: Good morning, Senator. Leonard Pitts, Jr., columnist with the Miami Herald and member of the National Association of Black Journalists.

You have repeatedly denounced false rumors that you are a Muslim. My question and what I'm wondering is whether or not you feel that you have gone too far, whether or not, in answering these questions without challenging the implicit assumption that there's something wrong with being a Muslim, you have actually done harm to the cause of Muslims.

You have visited churches and synagogues. When will you -- or is it in the plans for you to visit a mosque?

OBAMA: Well, Leonard, I have to say, this is a classic example of a no-win situation, right? So I try to correct something that is false and then people say, "Well, why are you correcting this thing in a way that isn't sufficiently" -- well, let me put it this way.

First of all, I have repeatedly on various occasions said I am not a Muslim, but this whole strategy of suggesting that I am is indicative of anti-Muslim sentiment that we have to -- that we have to fight against. So maybe you haven't seen those quotes, but they're out there. And I've said them on more than one occasion. And I've said them on television; I've said them in print. I just don't like the idea of somebody falsely identifying my religion. I suspect that you wouldn't appreciate that, either. If you were a Muslim and somebody consistently said you were a Christian, I suspect that you would want to have that corrected, because that's offensive to -- to your faith.

You know, I think my credentials on supporting Muslim-Americans are very strong. Keep in mind, I'm the person who talked about discrimination against Arab-Americans in my convention speech in 2004, something that I hadn't heard too many other politicians talk about in the height of the scare after 9/11.

I have visited mosques here in my community, repeatedly, on -- and met with Muslim leaders on a wide range of occasions.

So, you know, what I would ask is that I am treated like other candidates in terms of expectations and that people look at my entire record. When it comes to anti-Muslim bias, when it comes to discrimination against Muslims or Arab-Americans, I have been at the forefront of those fights and will continue to be when I'm president of the United States.

(APPLAUSE)

RATNESAR: Senator, let me ask you a no-win follow-up.

(LAUGHTER)

Do you think you could have come this far if you were a Muslim?

OBAMA: You know, that's a -- that's a hypothetical that I don't know how to answer. I will tell you this, that the American people are more tolerant and more open-minded than I think a lot of the pundits give them credit for.

And I think right now what they're interested in is, who's going to help them get a job? Who's going to make sure that they are able to send their kid to college? Who can deliver for them?

And if they have confidence that I am going to be able to make their lives better or work with them to open up opportunities for them to achieve the American dream, I think I'll have their support.

And if I -- and if, on the other hand, they think I'm not going to help them do that, then it doesn't matter what my religion is or what my skin color is, I probably won't get their support.

[PujolJunkie]

FactCheck.org: ACORN accusations

[Jocephus]

i voted today

How many times?

classy.

once, it was a mail in ballot.