Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[BW23]

Sorry, I didn't know that we could only take shots at McCain in this thread.

Do you know of any plumbers that make $250k? Is stating that unlikelihood "making fun of" someone?

Short of having a pre-conceived agenda, one that's obviously manifested in your "messiah" comment, I don't really see how saying that plumbers don't make $250k is making fun of somebody.

Biden's words, or rather how he said it, was much less in a mocking manner than Obama. Obama was clearly mocking Joe and McCain by trying to say that McCain is catering to those making that much money ("the rich"), but also by clearly mocking Joe.

I personally don't know any plumbers making that much money, but I do know of businesses that are which do plumbing. And wasn't Joe's question coming from the small business standpoint and not from a personal standpoint?

Joe doesn't own a small business. Joe doesn't even have a plumbers license and he owes $1200 in back taxes. On paper, the guy is a first class turd. Obama can't say it, but I can.

Tony Herrera of the Plumbers and Steamfitters Local 50 in Toledo said, “It’s a shame that this guy presented himself as a plumber. The real Joe the Plumber supports Barack Obama.”

Many news outlets quoted a plumber union member as sarcastically saying Wurzelbacher seems worried over paying higher taxes on his annual income of 250,000 dollars if Obama is elected president.

“If there’s a plumber or pipefitter making more than 250,000 dollars, we want to know where he’s working,” Herrera said. “We don’t make that kind of money.”

Why did you quote me? That didn't address anything in my post.

[BW23]

I didn't think Obama was being appropriate with that schtick either. As far as I'm concerned, it's fairly irrelevant what the reality of the Joe's situation is. He put forth a question and a point of view which should be respected. Obama's first serious response to him was the way he should have continued to approach it, whether or not Joe is a Republican who was trying to sandbag him.

I think it's relevant because McCain trying to frame this as if he's fighting for the common blue collar worker. Clearly a plumber earning 250k isn't.

Aren't there businesses that will earn more than that amount that employ blue collar workers? That make products for blue collar workers? You don't think taxing these businesses will hurt blue collar workers? The businesses will bring home the same amount to the top people...or more rather. They'll just cut jobs and/or raise prices to compensate.

Obama doesn't have a problem with that since he'll be "spreading the wealth".

[jim]

From the trusted source, wikipedia:

Wurzelbacher is one of two employees of a small plumbing firm, Newell Plumbing and Heating Co. of Toledo,[8] the company he described to Obama as making more than $250,000 per year.[19] Wurzelbacher said that the idea of buying the company was discussed during his job interview six years prior.[1]

MSNBC reported that "Ohio business records show the company’s estimated total annual revenue as only $100,000. Actual taxable income would be even less than that."[24] According to Bloomberg News, if Wurzelbacher bought the company and it did have the earnings he described, by the time he took proper business deductions, he would be left with between $150,000 and $200,000 in taxable income and wouldn't be affected by Obama's proposed increase in the top rates.[25]

An Associated Press article reported that Wurzelbacher did not have a plumber's license or apprenticeship.[26] Local 50 of the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters and Service Mechanics, which endorsed Obama, said Wurzelbacher applied for an apprentice program in 2003 but did not complete the work.[27] Wurzelbacher told reporters he did not need a license because he worked under license of Al Newell, the owner of the firm where he works. Newell held licenses with the State of Ohio and City of Toledo.[1][19]

In his interview on ABC's Good Morning America on October 16, Wurzelbacher said that his two current plumbing jobs were for a gas station and for a shopping center, Levis Commons.[17]

Under the Obama plan, Joe the Plumber might actually be able to afford to pay his taxes.

[lukethedrifter]

I heard a couple of clips yesterday where they were making fun of him. I'd have to search to find them, but I'm sure they're out there somewhere.

Biden, maybe.

Obama making fun of him would be a stretch.

After all, he patiently took time out to explain his position to
someone who was obviously sandbagging him. And explained
it in a way that any other candidate couldn't or wouldn't.

Which I applauded then and do so now.

Obama said to the effect that he doesn't know of any plumbers that make $250k a year. But I am sure the Messiah wouldn't be making fun of anyone.

What's the point of jumping in here to take a shot like that? I guess the answer is in the question.

Sorry, I didn't know that we could only take shots at McCain in this thread.

Disingenuous apologies aside, you have not participated in this thread other than to jump in and go all "Messiah" on Obama. Thus my comment.

You might consider contributing a bit of substance to the dialogue before you take the potshot. It's the GRB way.

[ghostrunner]

A plumber can make 250k if he owns his business and has several employees. That's not this guy's situation, but I find that fairly irrelevant to the question he put forth.

This is the plumbing company we use, started by one guy in 1967. It was bought by a larger company in 2005, but I'm certain they were earning over $250k before that. It's hard to drive around town without seeing one of their trucks.

http://www.paulesmith.com/

[indyredbird]

I called him Messiah as others have alluded to it. Even Obama laughed at himself and jokingly said he was born in a manger. It is funny that I have a pre-conceived agenda, but the posters in here that back Obama do not?

What is so unbelievable about a plumber making $250k a year?

Michael addressed the salary concern. Regarding the agenda comment, divebombing a thread with a "messiah" comment isn't going to lead to any sort of positive discussion and you know it. That's not brain surgery.

Unless you are going to point out the posters who have said uncalled for things about "Creepy" McCain, hush.

[Michael]

I didn't think Obama was being appropriate with that schtick either. As far as I'm concerned, it's fairly irrelevant what the reality of the Joe's situation is. He put forth a question and a point of view which should be respected. Obama's first serious response to him was the way he should have continued to approach it, whether or not Joe is a Republican who was trying to sandbag him.

I think it's relevant because McCain trying to frame this as if he's fighting for the common blue collar worker. Clearly a plumber earning 250k isn't.

Aren't there businesses that will earn more than that amount that employ blue collar workers? That make products for blue collar workers? You don't think taxing these businesses will hurt blue collar workers? The businesses will bring home the same amount to the top people...or more rather. They'll just cut jobs and/or raise prices to compensate.

Obama doesn't have a problem with that since he'll be "spreading the wealth".

If you want to discuss the benefits of trickle down economics to the working class, that's fine (I think the data will support Obama). My point is, McCain isn't framing the discussion that way. He's making it seem like under Obama's tax plan avg plumbers will see their taxes raised, which is wrong.

[jim]

A plumber can make 250k if he owns his business and has several employees. That's not this guy's situation, but I find that fairly irrelevant to the question he put forth.

This is the plumbing company we use, started by one guy in 1967. It was bought by a larger company in 2005, but I'm certain they were earning over $250k before that. It's hard to drive around town without seeing one of their trucks.

http://www.paulesmith.com/

I do not think it's irrelevant. Local 50 of the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters and Service Mechanics endorsed Obama because HE is the guy that will keep government out of plumbers pockets, not McCain.

[Jocephus]

I heard a couple of clips yesterday where they were making fun of him. I'd have to search to find them, but I'm sure they're out there somewhere.

Biden, maybe.

Obama making fun of him would be a stretch.

After all, he patiently took time out to explain his position to
someone who was obviously sandbagging him. And explained
it in a way that any other candidate couldn't or wouldn't.

Which I applauded then and do so now.

Obama said to the effect that he doesn't know of any plumbers that make $250k a year. But I am sure the Messiah wouldn't be making fun of anyone.

What's the point of jumping in here to take a shot like that? I guess the answer is in the question.

Obama did indeed make fun of him. He said something along the lines of this, in his usual elitist tone: "The plumber's the guy he's fighting for." Lots of laughter from the crowd. "How many plumbers do you know making $250,000 a year?"

poor joe...republicans always are getting their feelings hurt, yet they call obama a terrorist with no shame.

and i just LOVE the elitist charge...a black man growing up in america by his grandmother is the elitist and the man who has 10+ houses and 10+ cars is the man of the people.

[ghostrunner]

He's making it seem like under Obama's tax plan avg plumbers will see their taxes raised, which is wrong.

I do not think it's irrelevant. Local 50 of the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters and Service Mechanics endorsed Obama because HE is the guy that will keep government out of plumbers pockets, not McCain.

I've assumed McCain was using Joe as an example of a potential small business owner, not as an example of a working class plumber. His contention all along has been that Obama's plan would hurt small businesses earning at the $250k level.

Calling him Joe the Plumber probably gives a different impression, but I have to think it's obvious to most people that 250k is not working class income.