Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

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Hungary Jack
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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

Post by Hungary Jack »

heyzeus wrote:
Jocephus wrote:you can see what the mayor of wasilla's job entails

http://www.hulu.com/watch/40115/the-dai ... s-p1-st-i1
Thanks for posting this - I watched it the other night and wanted to comment.

The mayor of Wasilla doesn't oversee a fire department, doesn't oversee a school system, and in fact doesn't apparently oversee any social services. But they do sign the checks to city employees.
Well I was born in a small town
And I live in a small town
Probly die in a small town
Oh, those small communities

All my friends are so small town
My parents live in the same small town
My job is so small town
Provides little opportunity

Educated in a small town
Taught the fear of jesus in a small town
Used to daydream in that small town
Another boring romantic thats me

But Ive seen it all in a small town
Had myself a ball in a small town
Married an l.a. doll and brought her to this small town
Now shes small town just like me

No I cannot forget where it is that I come from
I cannot forget the people who love me
Yeah, I can be myself here in this small town
And people let me be just what I want to be

Got nothing against a big town
Still hayseed enough to say
Look whos in the big town
But my bed is in a small town
Oh, and thats good enough for me

Well I was born in a small town
And I can breathe in a small town
Gonna die in this small town
And that's prob'ly where theyll bury THE REPUBLICAN PARTY
FIXED

maddash
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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

Post by maddash »

There's already a movement taking place trying to mount a conservative comeback. They haven't given up on McCain, but they feel that even if McCain wins the Republican Party needs to be steered back in the "right" direction. Rush talks about it, David Frum already has a book out about it, the wingnuts are set on taking their party back. I actually think a revamped Republican Party could do extremely well, even as soon as 2010. Refocus on actual small government policies, start pushing a flatter revamped tax system, drop the evangelical arm of the party, take a chunk out of the green movement by re-branding it as conservation and pushing nuclear power... the debacle in Iraq will mostly have worked itself out by then, and I'd even distance myself from the knuckleheads PNAC. The problem is that their champion for this conservative comeback is none other than Sarah Palin. If that's the person conservatives want to rest their hats on, they're doomed.

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Hungary Jack
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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

Post by Hungary Jack »

I'd be thrilled if our conservative party actually went back to espousing conservative policies: smaller government, simplified taxes (tax compliance is a HUGE drag on the economy), abandoning efforts to legislate morality, long-term views on environmental issues. Perhaps the embarrassment of the McCain/Palin whiny (female dog)-fest and the humiliation that awaits on November 4 will spur the Republicans to tear up their tired worn-out blueprint and start over.

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sighyoung
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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

Post by sighyoung »

maddash wrote:There's already a movement taking place trying to mount a conservative comeback. They haven't given up on McCain, but they feel that even if McCain wins the Republican Party needs to be steered back in the "right" direction. Rush talks about it, David Frum already has a book out about it, the wingnuts are set on taking their party back. I actually think a revamped Republican Party could do extremely well, even as soon as 2010. Refocus on actual small government policies, start pushing a flatter revamped tax system, drop the evangelical arm of the party, take a chunk out of the green movement by re-branding it as conservation and pushing nuclear power... the debacle in Iraq will mostly have worked itself out by then, and I'd even distance myself from the knuckleheads PNAC. The problem is that their champion for this conservative comeback is none other than Sarah Palin. If that's the person conservatives want to rest their hats on, they're doomed.
Palin isn't going to be the face of that movement--what does she bring other than an image?

Jon Henke has a reasonable blog about this--he mentions that Palin doesn't bring the political philosophy, governing strategy, or grassroots base to be the leader of such a movement:

http://www.thenextright.com/jon-henke/s ... -the-right

Freed Roger
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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

Post by Freed Roger »

JCShutout wrote: I'm going to start calling anyone who supports the military, or building roads (etc.) a socialist because that's socialist wealth re-distribution.
Here's another chart - where US tax dollars go ( it looks like they've excluded social security, medicare spending which seems proper - since that spending is mandatory and supposedly a disbursement of payroll tax collections for ss + medicare.)


Image

I have not dug thru source detail of this pie chart - it originates from the Quakers ( oh those peaceniks oatmeal guys can't be trusted :D ), with a surface comparison to US budget - the allocation seems within range. There are inherent problems in accounting for true defense spending - combat operations (Iraq etc)are supplemental add-ons, plus defense costs are scattered thru categories other than what goes to the DOD. For example -the VA spending on Vets, interest on defense portion of national debt, and even nuclear weapons - go thru dept of Energy's budget. The supplemental funding bills for Iraq -not included above.


I'm not naive to think US can get by without a strong national defense. But clearly we've gone down a non-sustainable path with how much we rely on military solutions and spend on Defense-and this is even with the shamefully low level of pay to our military citizens.

The history of the world is littered with former dynasties that were unable to balance there defense spending or imperialist desires with other priorities. As other competing countries are able to allocate money to research, new technology, infrastructure, education -we have to allocate half to our military.

**Proponents of higher military spending like to sugarcoat the amount we spend militarily compared to our national GDP. Percentage-wise its a small portion of our GDP. (note GDP is inflated by our debt-laden consumption mess). This is not an accurate measure - if anything, it measures the burden on the US economy of defense spending - but does nothing to measure the burden on US taxpayers, nor the lack of funding on other priorities.

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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

Post by jim »

Scary to see how far I have come...

http://gatewayredbirds.com/forum/viewto ... sh#p463900

maddash
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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

Post by maddash »

sighyoung wrote:
maddash wrote:There's already a movement taking place trying to mount a conservative comeback. They haven't given up on McCain, but they feel that even if McCain wins the Republican Party needs to be steered back in the "right" direction. Rush talks about it, David Frum already has a book out about it, the wingnuts are set on taking their party back. I actually think a revamped Republican Party could do extremely well, even as soon as 2010. Refocus on actual small government policies, start pushing a flatter revamped tax system, drop the evangelical arm of the party, take a chunk out of the green movement by re-branding it as conservation and pushing nuclear power... the debacle in Iraq will mostly have worked itself out by then, and I'd even distance myself from the knuckleheads PNAC. The problem is that their champion for this conservative comeback is none other than Sarah Palin. If that's the person conservatives want to rest their hats on, they're doomed.
Palin isn't going to be the face of that movement--what does she bring other than an image?

Jon Henke has a reasonable blog about this--he mentions that Palin doesn't bring the political philosophy, governing strategy, or grassroots base to be the leader of such a movement:

http://www.thenextright.com/jon-henke/s ... -the-right
Well, there's an obvious rift, and there will probably be a race to see which side can "comeback" first. You have the Palin side - people like Rush and other neo-cons who feel that Palin represents the "small town, strong values, pro-America" side. She really is their person, they love her twice as much as McCain, and her supporters are a big part of the Republican base. And then you have the "conservative intellectuals", who adhere to more classical conservative views of small government and very limited intervention in social matters. I'm generalizing things greatly (my little labels for each group aren't exactly great), but that's pretty much the rift. Ultimately, the "conservative intellectuals" can steer moderates towards their side, but the "Palin" side controls the most of the base and their political network (which is still pretty strong). I mean, practicality still matters, and the base can organize and get the vote out better than any "conservative intellectual" movement could.

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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

Post by greenback44 »

sighyoung wrote:Palin isn't going to be the face of that movement--what does she bring other than an image?

Jon Henke has a reasonable blog about this--he mentions that Palin doesn't bring the political philosophy, governing strategy, or grassroots base to be the leader of such a movement:

http://www.thenextright.com/jon-henke/s ... -the-right
Palin doesn't have a mailing list like John Dean's, but the folks who apparently forced her onto McCain's ticket probably do. So the question becomes whether Those Ones are happy with her performance on the campaign trail. Most of us are brainwashed by the Elite Liberal Media's disdain for her, so it's hard for us to see the True Sarah Palin the way Those Ones see her, good or bad.

Palin reminds me of a line from Don Henley's "Dirty Laundry", "I just have to look good, I don't have to be clear."

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sighyoung
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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

Post by sighyoung »

Oh, I'm not denying the general premise of your posts, maddash. I just think that values-oriented conservatives will have many more choices besides Palin after this election, and they don't necessarily have to anoint her.

If McCain should win, however, she's in the catbird seat. But I still don't see her as the likely 2012 nominee.

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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

Post by Michael »

I can't imagine values-oriented conservatives will look at her favorability numbers and appoint her as the new face of their movement. Outside of their core, America can't stand her.

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