Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[Arthur Dent]

The Economist poll is complete nonsense. It has Obama at 80% in the U.S.

[letsgocards89]

thanks letsgo. articles by the American Enterprise Institute and the Cato Institute. Bush's top advisor think tanks.

So the Kos-bots turning this thread into a liberal blog RSS feed is cool, but not my articles from the Wall Street Journal?

[jim]

this is how science is done, folks.

you won't let us have our own god-like abilities to create human clones to experiment on, so don't make fun of us when we have to use other vectors to figure out what the hell is going on.

clone hyperbole aside, just another example of how science is being marginalized in this country. Vice presidential candidates who have no idea what they're talking about shouldn't be talking about said subjects. Bobby Redneck won't ever hear the explanation, he'll just yell "they're wasting our money studying dadgum flies!!!".

And the lowly fruit fly is one of the most important tools we have for understanding genetics.

And nobody discovers this if not for the work of the evil anti-creationist, Charles Darwin. So there ya' go.

[letsgocards89]

How's Obama Going to Raise $4.3 Trillion?

Interesting that this article chooses to only consider Obama's plans. The Tax Policy Center, the source of many of the article's figures, concludes that Obama's tax changes would reduce revenue over the next decade (with respect to current law) by $2.95 trillion. This figure is reported. In the same table, the TPC concludes that McCain tax cuts would reduce revenue by an even larger $4.17 trillion over the same period. How's McCain going to raise that money?

It's not all that interesting that the article only considers Obama's plans. He's the one promising the moon, so how's he going to pay for making it happen? If it really is going to cost 4.3 trillion, how is he going to do that AND reduce the deficit. Sconorb posted the plan from Obama's site, and it's only specifics is that he'd like to close tax shelters which supposedly will regain $350 billion. Now that's a pretty big sum, but it still leaves him $3.82 trillion left to fund. I'm not sure closing "special interest corporate loopholes" is gonna fill that gap.

[letsgocards89]

How's Obama Going to Raise $4.3 Trillion?

Since you asked:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/fiscal/

The Problem
Increasing Debt: Under President Bush, the federal debt has increased from $5.7 trillion to $8.8 trillion, an increase of more than 50 percent.

Irresponsible Tax Cuts: President Bush's policies of giving tax breaks for the wealthy will cost the nation over $2.3 trillion by the time they expire in 2009.

Barack Obama and Joe Biden's Plan


Restore Fiscal Discipline to Washington
Reinstate PAYGO Rules: Obama and Biden believe that a critical step in restoring fiscal discipline is enforcing pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) budgeting rules which require new spending commitments or tax changes to be paid for by cuts to other programs or new revenue.

Reverse Bush Tax Cuts for the Wealthy: Obama and Biden will protect tax cuts for poor and middle class families, but they will reverse most of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest taxpayers.

Cut Pork Barrel Spending: Obama introduced and passed bipartisan legislation that would require more disclosure and transparency for special-interest earmarks. Obama and Biden believe that spending that cannot withstand public scrutiny cannot be justified. Obama and Biden will slash earmarks to no greater than year 1994 levels and ensure all spending decisions are open to the public.

Make Government Spending More Accountable and Efficient: Obama and Biden will ensure that federal contracts over $25,000 are competitively bid. Obama and Biden will also increase the efficiency of government programs through better use of technology, stronger management that demands accountability and by leveraging the government's high-volume purchasing power to get lower prices.

End Wasteful Government Spending: Obama and Biden will stop funding wasteful, obsolete federal government programs that make no financial sense. Obama and Biden have called for an end to subsidies for oil and gas companies that are enjoying record profits, as well as the elimination of subsidies to the private student loan industry which has repeatedly used unethical business practices. Obama and Biden will also tackle wasteful spending in the Medicare program.

Make the Tax System More Fair and Efficient
End Tax Haven Abuse: Building on his bipartisan work in the Senate, Obama will give the Treasury Department the tools it needs to stop the abuse of tax shelters and offshore tax havens and help close the $350 billion tax gap between taxes owed and taxes paid.

Close Special Interest Corporate Loopholes: Obama and Biden will level the playing field for all businesses by eliminating special-interest loopholes and deductions, such as those for the oil and gas industry.

Barack Obama and Joe Biden's Record
PAYGO: Obama voted in 2005, 2006, and 2007 to reinstate pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) federal budget rules.
No-Bid Contracts: Obama has introduced and helped pass bipartisan legislation to limit the abuse of no-bid federal contracts.
Against Raising the Federal Debt Limit: In 2006, Obama voted against misguided Republican efforts to raise the statutory debt limit at the same time the Republicans were pushing through massive debt-financed tax cuts for the wealthy.
For More Information about Barack's Plan
Read the Plan

A lot of nice feel-good buzzwords like "reverse tax cuts for the wealthy" and "close special interest corporate loopholes" but is that really enough for all the spending he's proposing?

[jim]

How's Obama Going to Raise $4.3 Trillion?

Since you asked:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/fiscal/

The Problem
Increasing Debt: Under President Bush, the federal debt has increased from $5.7 trillion to $8.8 trillion, an increase of more than 50 percent.

Irresponsible Tax Cuts: President Bush's policies of giving tax breaks for the wealthy will cost the nation over $2.3 trillion by the time they expire in 2009.

Barack Obama and Joe Biden's Plan


Restore Fiscal Discipline to Washington
Reinstate PAYGO Rules: Obama and Biden believe that a critical step in restoring fiscal discipline is enforcing pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) budgeting rules which require new spending commitments or tax changes to be paid for by cuts to other programs or new revenue.

Reverse Bush Tax Cuts for the Wealthy: Obama and Biden will protect tax cuts for poor and middle class families, but they will reverse most of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest taxpayers.

Cut Pork Barrel Spending: Obama introduced and passed bipartisan legislation that would require more disclosure and transparency for special-interest earmarks. Obama and Biden believe that spending that cannot withstand public scrutiny cannot be justified. Obama and Biden will slash earmarks to no greater than year 1994 levels and ensure all spending decisions are open to the public.

Make Government Spending More Accountable and Efficient: Obama and Biden will ensure that federal contracts over $25,000 are competitively bid. Obama and Biden will also increase the efficiency of government programs through better use of technology, stronger management that demands accountability and by leveraging the government's high-volume purchasing power to get lower prices.

End Wasteful Government Spending: Obama and Biden will stop funding wasteful, obsolete federal government programs that make no financial sense. Obama and Biden have called for an end to subsidies for oil and gas companies that are enjoying record profits, as well as the elimination of subsidies to the private student loan industry which has repeatedly used unethical business practices. Obama and Biden will also tackle wasteful spending in the Medicare program.

Make the Tax System More Fair and Efficient
End Tax Haven Abuse: Building on his bipartisan work in the Senate, Obama will give the Treasury Department the tools it needs to stop the abuse of tax shelters and offshore tax havens and help close the $350 billion tax gap between taxes owed and taxes paid.

Close Special Interest Corporate Loopholes: Obama and Biden will level the playing field for all businesses by eliminating special-interest loopholes and deductions, such as those for the oil and gas industry.

Barack Obama and Joe Biden's Record
PAYGO: Obama voted in 2005, 2006, and 2007 to reinstate pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) federal budget rules.
No-Bid Contracts: Obama has introduced and helped pass bipartisan legislation to limit the abuse of no-bid federal contracts.
Against Raising the Federal Debt Limit: In 2006, Obama voted against misguided Republican efforts to raise the statutory debt limit at the same time the Republicans were pushing through massive debt-financed tax cuts for the wealthy.
For More Information about Barack's Plan
Read the Plan

A lot of nice feel-good buzzwords like "reverse tax cuts for the wealthy" and "close special interest corporate loopholes" but is that really enough for all the spending he's proposing?

How would you word it? The tax rate was at 39% under Clinton, pushed back to 36% under Bush, and now Obama wants to put it back to 39%. What would you suggest a politician word that?

[Popeye_Card]

How's Obama Going to Raise $4.3 Trillion?

Interesting that this article chooses to only consider Obama's plans. The Tax Policy Center, the source of many of the article's figures, concludes that Obama's tax changes would reduce revenue over the next decade (with respect to current law) by $2.95 trillion. This figure is reported. In the same table, the TPC concludes that McCain tax cuts would reduce revenue by an even larger $4.17 trillion over the same period. How's McCain going to raise that money?

It's not all that interesting that the article only considers Obama's plans. He's the one promising the moon, so how's he going to pay for making it happen? If it really is going to cost 4.3 trillion, how is he going to do that AND reduce the deficit. Sconorb posted the plan from Obama's site, and it's only specifics is that he'd like to close tax shelters which supposedly will regain $350 billion. Now that's a pretty big sum, but it still leaves him $3.82 trillion left to fund. I'm not sure closing "special interest corporate loopholes" is gonna fill that gap.

You still didn't really address the point. McCain is running as a "fiscal conservative". They've been promising the moon for years without delivering. So what is his plan for reducing the deficit and eventually the debt? Here's what I gathered from johnmccain.com:

To keep our nation prosperous, strong and growing we have to rethink, reform and reinvent: the way we educate our children; train our workers; deliver health care services; support retirees; fuel our transportation network; stimulate research and development; and harness new technologies.

Under a McCain presidency the United States will experience robust economic growth, and Americans will again have confidence in their economic future. A reduction in the corporate tax rate from the second highest in the world to one on par with our trading partners; the low rate on capital gains; allowing business to deduct in a single year investments in equipment and technology, while eliminating tax loopholes and ending corporate welfare, will spur innovation and productivity, and encourage companies to keep their operations and jobs in the United States. Doubling the size of the child exemption will put more disposable income in the hands of taxpayers, further stimulating growth.

Sounds like cutting taxes is the magic tonic. Here's the more detailed version (too long to quote). Now tell me how that isn't just full of buzzwords. To me, it sounds like the same-ol', same-ol' from the Republican party, which claims to be fiscally conservative, but rarely is in practice. Like I've said elsewhere, they're the husbands who chastize their wife for buying the expensive brand of pasta, but then go out and finance a new Corvette.

[ghostrunner]

It's definitely fair to ask where Obama is going to get all the money. At this point, he's probably the winner.

However, it's not uncommon for candidates to knowingly plan for more than they can deliver. My attitude is that I'd like them to say what they want to do, generally irrespective of cost. Once they're in office, there will be plenty of reality and math to deal with. Clinton promised a lot too, then 6 years later became the first president since LBJ to propose a balanced budget.

[fulldeck]

[S]cientists at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill School of Medicine have shown that a protein called neurexin is required for..nerve cell connections to form and function correctly.

The discovery, made in Drosophila fruit flies may lead to advances in understanding autism spectrum disorders, as recently, human neurexins have been identified as a genetic risk factor for autism.

If they are doing research at UNC why are we giving money to France for the same thing? Why not give the money to UCLA to run the same studies? Shouldn't the French gov. be funding their own research?

[Popeye_Card]

It's definitely fair to ask where Obama is going to get all the money. At this point, he's probably the winner.

However, it's not uncommon for candidates to knowingly plan for more than they can deliver. My attitude is that I'd like them to say what they want to do, generally irrespective of cost. Once they're in office, there will be plenty of reality and math to deal with. Clinton promised a lot too, then 6 years later became the first president since LBJ to propose a balanced budget.

I agree that it's fair to ask Obama, but until there is a winner, it is fair to ask both sides.

IMO, Obama has proposed a more detailed plan for balancing spending while maintaining (or improving) revenue. Both sides are making promises that they would have to deliver on. It boils down to who you trust to deliver on their promises, and whose method do you think is going to work. So far, over the past few weeks with the economy in the crapper, people by-and-large are choosing Obama to run the economy.