Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[Arthur Dent]

That actually makes things look somewhat better than they are. In recent decades, the increase in household income has come due to additional hours worked and an increased numbers of two income families. Real wages actually peaked in the 70's despite steady economic growth since then. The large productivity gains have been redistributed to the high end.

[Popeye_Card]

Why should I be punished for making good decisions in my life?

What I heard in that video was that "political and economic justice" is the redistribution of wealth. Justice, both politically and economically, is taking from the rich and giving to the poor. It's exactly what his "church" stands for.

1.) I guess if you view paying taxes as "punishment", then you would be right. I don't view it that way.

2.) Isn't that what most churches stand for? Didn't Jesus tell a parable about the poor woman who gave all she had, vs. the rich man who merely gave his tithe?

I view paying taxes for certain programs a punishment, yeah.

Are you comparing his "church" to most churches? If so, that's probably not a good idea. Ever read about the theology behind Trinity?

1.) I don't like a good portion of my taxes funding a war I've never agreed with, but I still wouldn't call them a punishment. Part of the cost of living in this wonderful country that has allowed me to earn such a good wage in the first place.

2.) I was only addressing your concern of Obama's church wanting political and economic justice. I'm pretty sure Jesus was for that, no?

[UK]

If I donated money to the defense fund or an organization that sends money to buy armor for the troops would that be a patriotic move?

[thrill]

If I donated money to the defense fund or an organization that sends money to buy armor for the troops would that be a patriotic move?

Only if you are a registered republican (never mind the fact that the reason we need the money for armor is because republicans slashed the budget for it) and have one of these bad boys on the back of your Suburban.

[BW23]

Why should I be punished for making good decisions in my life?

What I heard in that video was that "political and economic justice" is the redistribution of wealth. Justice, both politically and economically, is taking from the rich and giving to the poor. It's exactly what his "church" stands for.

1.) I guess if you view paying taxes as "punishment", then you would be right. I don't view it that way.

2.) Isn't that what most churches stand for? Didn't Jesus tell a parable about the poor woman who gave all she had, vs. the rich man who merely gave his tithe?

I view paying taxes for certain programs a punishment, yeah.

Are you comparing his "church" to most churches? If so, that's probably not a good idea. Ever read about the theology behind Trinity?

1.) I don't like a good portion of my taxes funding a war I've never agreed with, but I still wouldn't call them a punishment. Part of the cost of living in this wonderful country that has allowed me to earn such a good wage in the first place.

2.) I was only addressing your concern of Obama's church wanting political and economic justice. I'm pretty sure Jesus was for that, no?

1) Fair enough on war. Of course, I agree with that.

2) Again, have you read the theology behind Trinity? I would say there's little Jesus agrees with there. But that's JMO. To me, the theology is very divisive stuff. More so than any religious organization that considers itself based on Christianity.

[UK]

If I donated money to the defense fund or an organization that sends money to buy armor for the troops would that be a patriotic move?

Only if you are a registered republican (never mind the fact that the reason we need the money for armor is because republicans slashed the budget for it) and have one of these bad boys on the back of your Suburban.

I love those that are critical of Biden's statement that it's patriotic to pay taxes, how do they pay for the armor and support the mistaken war in Iraq?




Taxes.

[Popeye_Card]

Why should I be punished for making good decisions in my life?

What I heard in that video was that "political and economic justice" is the redistribution of wealth. Justice, both politically and economically, is taking from the rich and giving to the poor. It's exactly what his "church" stands for.

1.) I guess if you view paying taxes as "punishment", then you would be right. I don't view it that way.

2.) Isn't that what most churches stand for? Didn't Jesus tell a parable about the poor woman who gave all she had, vs. the rich man who merely gave his tithe?

I view paying taxes for certain programs a punishment, yeah.

Are you comparing his "church" to most churches? If so, that's probably not a good idea. Ever read about the theology behind Trinity?

1.) I don't like a good portion of my taxes funding a war I've never agreed with, but I still wouldn't call them a punishment. Part of the cost of living in this wonderful country that has allowed me to earn such a good wage in the first place.

2.) I was only addressing your concern of Obama's church wanting political and economic justice. I'm pretty sure Jesus was for that, no?

1) Fair enough on war. Of course, I agree with that.

2) Again, have you read the theology behind Trinity? I would say there's little Jesus agrees with there. But that's JMO. To me, the theology is very divisive stuff. More so than any religious organization that considers itself based on Christianity.

I've not read up much on Trinity, because I don't really care much about it. Not enough to wade through what's factual and what isn't from what I can research on the internet.

But regardless of what wacky things the rest of the church may believe, Jesus very much cared about political and economic justice. Perhaps not through the government, but I believe he held little regard for those who cared more about their paycheck than their fellow man.

From Luke 18:

9To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: 10"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood up and prayed about[a] himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'
13"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'

14"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

18A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
19"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone. 20You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.'"

21"All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.

22When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

23When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth. 24Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! 25Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

26Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?"

27Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."

28Peter said to him, "We have left all we had to follow you!"

29"I tell you the truth," Jesus said to them, "no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life."

[haltz]

I've also said more than that that I don't believe him. He's given me no reason to believe him. None other than a plan that won't go into place.

Do you believe what McCain says or is this specific to Obama (or democrats in general)?

[PujolJunkie]

Why should I be punished for making good decisions in my life?

What I heard in that video was that "political and economic justice" is the redistribution of wealth. Justice, both politically and economically, is taking from the rich and giving to the poor. It's exactly what his "church" stands for.

1.) I guess if you view paying taxes as "punishment", then you would be right. I don't view it that way.

2.) Isn't that what most churches stand for? Didn't Jesus tell a parable about the poor woman who gave all she had, vs. the rich man who merely gave his tithe?

I view paying taxes for certain programs a punishment, yeah.

Are you comparing his "church" to most churches? If so, that's probably not a good idea. Ever read about the theology behind Trinity?

1.) I don't like a good portion of my taxes funding a war I've never agreed with, but I still wouldn't call them a punishment. Part of the cost of living in this wonderful country that has allowed me to earn such a good wage in the first place.

2.) I was only addressing your concern of Obama's church wanting political and economic justice. I'm pretty sure Jesus was for that, no?

1) Fair enough on war. Of course, I agree with that.

2) Again, have you read the theology behind Trinity? I would say there's little Jesus agrees with there. But that's JMO. To me, the theology is very divisive stuff. More so than any religious organization that considers itself based on Christianity.

I've not read up much on Trinity, because I don't really care much about it. Not enough to wade through what's factual and what isn't from what I can research on the internet.

But regardless of what wacky things the rest of the church may believe, Jesus very much cared about political and economic justice. Perhaps not through the government, but I believe he held little regard for those who cared more about their paycheck than their fellow man.

From Luke 18:

9To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: 10"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood up and prayed about[a] himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'
13"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'

14"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

18A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
19"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone. 20You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.'"

21"All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.

22When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

23When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth. 24Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! 25Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

26Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?"

27Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."

28Peter said to him, "We have left all we had to follow you!"

29"I tell you the truth," Jesus said to them, "no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life."

Everyone knows Jesus had a liberal bias.

[BW23]

I've also said more than that that I don't believe him. He's given me no reason to believe him. None other than a plan that won't go into place.

Do you believe what McCain says or is this specific to Obama (or democrats in general)?

No, I believe that about pretty much every politician. But as I said earlier today, we have what Obama's done, we have far left leaders in both the House and Senate, and we have what Obama believes in.

Should I go with some pitch to get elected or with what we know? I'm leaning towards the latter.