BW23 wrote:I'm losing it? How so? Seriously. I shouldn't care about the beliefs his church was built on...a church he spent 20 years in, got married in and had his kids baptized in? A church that has clearly helped shape him?
Do people think that church has that big of an impact on their lives? I always thought it was a place to learn and reflect...not a brainwashing institute...maybe I'm wrong though.
It has a big impact on my life.
Even if it's just a place to learn and reflect, which I guess for a lot of people it is, doesn't what the basis of that church pushes have some impact? Just a little?
I think everyone is different and I disagree with a lot of what the church teaches, but it doesn't mean I don't go to there to listen and learn what others have to say, or what their view is. I don't believe in fitting into a box, but I do believe actions speak louder than words.
So far, what I know about both Obama and McCain make me think that they are both trying to do what is best for the country. Both are honorable men for serving their country or serving their community.
If you can point to an instance where McCain's or Obama's church has a direct correlation to McCain's or Obama's work being harmful, then I will be glad to listen (maybe you have 20 pages back and I haven't seen it).
If Obama remotely believes in the theology of his church, then I think it's harmful. He aligned himself closely with that church and Wright (and my arguments today really have nothing to do with the sound bites the media has shown of him but rather the church as a whole) until it was shown that it would hurt him to align with the church and/or Wright. He went there for 20 years, and nothing changed in 20 years, but when he became a front-runner this year, the church had to remove from its site what it believes in (or at least tame most of it on the parts that were kept), he had to remove Wright and then had to quit the church. The only thing that changed in all that time was Obama's rise on the national scene. It was convenient to be a part of that church when he was a big shot in Chicago and then in running for U.S. Sentator. It's not when you're running for president, so he's tried to distance himself.
Now, obviously I disagree with redistribution of wealth, and that's something his church pushes strongly, but it's a lot more to it than that for me.
Radbird wrote:I think it would be helpful for the right to decide whether Obama is a socialist or a fascist, because I'm pretty sure those are different things.
This video reaches depths that I hoped would not be attained during this campaign, but apparently I was wrong. All I can do is shake my head and hope Nov 4 gets here soon. The link below the video is to an article that apparently is gaining wide distribution in some Christian circles.
This is real to me because I received Lori's "Hymn" as an email from someone at my church this weekend urging me to reconsider voting for Obama.
We went to a different church yesterday.
Would you have gone to a different church if this new one welcomed you and told you they will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the black enemy? That they would destroy those who held them back from these ideals "by any means necessary"? And unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love?
Naturally, I would like to see some verification on this. Even if it comes from a right-wing publication, though I obviously prefer an unbiased source.
For the record, I don't care about McCain or Palin's churches. And I fully accept that Obama's church selection was likely highly politically motivated to help secure the black vote both early in his career and now. I don't agree with that practice, but it is what it is.
I just went to the home pages of CNN (which has about 15 top stories), NY Times, PBS, The Christian Science Monitor, BBC News, International Herald Tribune, The Irish Times and MSNBC and none of them have even a mention of the news of the day, according to you, BW.
The Drudge Report, on the other hand, in about 64 point type headline...that's the story you spoke of.
You've got to be careful of where you get your news or at least be cognizant that it's liable to be biased if coming from a biased website.
pop_haines wrote:BW, take a break. For the record, I don't make a fuss
about religious beliefs and you've not read one word
from me to prove otherwise. This is exactly why I
am an advocate of full separation of church and state.
If Palin believes in one thing and Obama believes in
another and I disagree with them both...I don't care.
Because religion should have NOTHING to do with
legislation. Ever. Believe whatever you want, just
don't presume to impose your beliefs on me, no
matter how right you think you are.
Tomorrow is another day.
pop....I certainly don't believe in what Palin does. Not at all.
But I do care if they agree in things that I feel are bad for this country. Since most of Obama's church's beliefs are based on social issues, then I think it's relevant. As would be any issue.
Richie Allen wrote:I just went to the home pages of CNN (which has about 15 top stories), NY Times, PBS, The Christian Science Monitor, BBC News, International Herald Tribune, The Irish Times and MSNBC and none of them have even a mention of the news of the day, according to you, BW.
The Drudge Report, on the other hand, in about 64 point type headline...that's the story you spoke of.
You've got to be careful of where you get your news or at least be cognizant that it's liable to be biased if coming from a biased website.
BW, this is one of the last things I'll pick on tonight, but:
If I was making over $250,000/year, I'd be much less stingy about where my money goes. But I would want it to be my choice. Why should government decide who gets it? Why should I be punished for making good decisions in my life?
Not everyone who makes a quarter of a million dollars in income did so because they made good choices in life. Not everyone who makes this much money does so because they work hard either. The Republican party has effectively brainwashed many people into thinking that the more money you have, the harder it is you worked. This isn't true at all. There are people that do the worst of jobs and do work hard and they never get to reap the rewards of health care or retirement benefits.
The idea that you can do anything you want in life was nice when Horatio Alger was writing it, but it's dead wrong now and Republicans are apparently the only ones who still believe it. America is the country of massive inequality and this cannot even be debated.
Richie Allen wrote:I just went to the home pages of CNN (which has about 15 top stories), NY Times, PBS, The Christian Science Monitor, BBC News, International Herald Tribune, The Irish Times and MSNBC and none of them have even a mention of the news of the day, according to you, BW.
The Drudge Report, on the other hand, in about 64 point type headline...that's the story you spoke of.
You've got to be careful of where you get your news or at least be cognizant that it's liable to be biased if coming from a biased website.
So, the idea of "redistribution of wealth" hasn't been in the news at all...except Drudge? Really? I found it pretty easy just about everywhere. If there's anything on McCain today (or yesterday, or the day before, or, really since Obama talked to good ole Joe), then I'd say it's relevant. The first story I opened on CNN had it.
40 McCain workers walk out because of the script they were told to use when making calls.
Some three dozen workers at a telemarketing call center in Indiana walked off the job rather than read an incendiary McCain campaign script attacking Barack Obama, according to two workers at the center and one of their parents.
Williams' daughter told her that up to 40 of her co-workers had refused to read the script, and had left the call center after supervisors told them that they would have to either read the call or leave, Williams says.
"They walked out," Williams says of her daughter and her co-workers, adding that they weren't fired but willingly sacrificed pay rather than read the lines. "They were told [by supervisors], `If you all leave, you're not gonna get paid for the rest of the day."
The daughter, who wanted her name withheld fearing retribution from her employer, confirmed the story to us. "It was like at least 40 people," the daughter said. "People thought the script was nasty and they didn't wanna read it."
