UPDATE: Cards Acquire Holliday, page 26

[JL21]

in retrospect, did we draft wallace to trade him? or was this a case of take the best talent sort it out later?

I don't think we drafted Wallcae to trade him I think we drafted Wallace against TLR's wishes. He never gave the kid a chance in spring training where it was obvious we had problems at 3rd base and his refusal to bring him up in the last month or so when we really had problems at 3rd base. TLR just doesn't like him.

He allegedly hated Colby Rasmus too. Except Rasmus is playing every day now and is untouchable in any trade.

True but the ship hasn't yet sailed on that one.......with Holliday now in the mix i see colby losing time to Ankiel

Both players have been on the roster for the last month. Ankiel's barely played while Rasmus has been playing every day. I don't see why it'd change now.

[The Third Man]

Our farm system sucks again.

Bravo.

[JCShutout]

I'm happy about this deal. I'm impressed with the front office. Wallace could turn out to be a good 3b and that will shock me (I think he'll be a good 1b or dh lie others here do), but I'm not as worried as I was about Haren years ago. The other two kids in the deal are dime a dozen.

[Socnorb11]

FTR, Beyond the Boxscore thinks we got severely kicked in the ass in the trade but goes on to say that it adds 15% to our odds of making the playoffs. I think if this was a different GM (Beane) a lot of people would have a different opinion. But since so many bloggers are so far up Beane's ass that they can see the enamel on his teeth, it gets skewered in the wrong direction.

I think many of the bloggers aren't taking the potential comp. picks into consideration, or the possibility of re-signing Holliday.

Either that or they're seriously overvaluing Motensen.

I agree. It's disappointing vivaelbirdos didn't mention the picks possibility in their opening salvo.

They're usually more on the ball, and cover all the bases.

[PujolJunkie]

FTR, Beyond the Boxscore thinks we got severely kicked in the ass in the trade but goes on to say that it adds 15% to our odds of making the playoffs. I think if this was a different GM (Beane) a lot of people would have a different opinion. But since so many bloggers are so far up Beane's ass that they can see the enamel on his teeth, it gets skewered in the wrong direction.

It should be noted that Erik of Future Redbirds wrote that, and that whole site and most of the commenters seem unhappy with it.

I get why they would be upset. They don't get to cover Wallace or Mortensen anymore. That would make any fan who really intently follows our minor league system upset. But Erik writes at FR that:

edit: Don’t misunderstand me, if Holliday means playoffs, then I can understand it. I don’t think there is a guarantee he does, or that he even vastly improves the odds that happens. I also just think they gave up a lot, and writing for FR becomes quite a bit less interesting.

However, at BTBS he writes:

The Big Leaguer: Not quite what he was in Colorado, ZiPS projects Matt Holliday to hit a .370 wOBA the rest of the season. His UZR/150 over his career is +7. He should be worth about 2 extra wins to the Cardinals and add about 15% to the Cardinals chances of making the playoffs according to our own vivaelpujols and his playoff odds.

I don't see how he can say that adding Holliday would add about 15% to our playoff chances and then turn around and try to say he isn't sure that it vastly improves it. I just think this is a case of guys who intently follow our minor league system overvaluing Mortensen and even Wallace, tbh. We all know Brett Wallace is going to be a damn good hitter. He already is. I wanted him to have a starting role on this team. But he was blocked at 1st base and nobody was sure if he could play 3rd or even left competently. Which is why I have no idea why the guys at FR or even VEB are having such a fit over this.

I do agree that 3 players seemed like a lot to give up for Holliday. But there's comp. picks. There's the possibility of resigning him. Even though we did give up what seemed to be a lot, that will replenish itself over the next draft. Not only that, but if it means getting a ring in sacrifice of a #5 starter, a POSSIBLE starting 3B (providing Wallace could even play there every day) and a 4th OF at the very, very best, then by all means, I'd give that up every single time for an extra 15% odds of us making it to the post season.

[KyCardinalFan]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=A ... &type=lgns

Big deal: Cardinals acquire Holliday from A’s

Needing to upgrade an offense that had scored three or fewer runs six times in the previous two weeks, and finding it increasingly more difficult to convince teams to pitch to Albert Pujols, the St. Louis Cardinals on Friday struck a deal for the biggest bat on the trade market.

By early afternoon, Matt Holliday had packed up in his midtown Manhattan hotel room; put his pregnant wife, Leslee, and two children into the back of a rented SUV; and was headed for Philadelphia, where his new ballclub would play the first of a three-game series against the Phillies. The Oakland A’s will receive three prospects for Holliday, including well-regarded Brett Wallace. The trade is expected to be announced in the next hour.

The Cardinals did not require a physical for Holliday, who had missed only one game for the A’s this season. Holliday could be somewhere behind Pujols in the Cardinals’ lineup Friday night when they face Phillies lefty J.A. Happ(notes) at 7:05 p.m. ET at Citizens Bank Park.

Stupid Paletta.

[M1IRONMIKE]

in retrospect, did we draft wallace to trade him? or was this a case of take the best talent sort it out later?

I don't think we drafted Wallcae to trade him I think we drafted Wallace against TLR's wishes. He never gave the kid a chance in spring training where it was obvious we had problems at 3rd base and his refusal to bring him up in the last month or so when we really had problems at 3rd base. TLR just doesn't like him.

He allegedly hated Colby Rasmus too. Except Rasmus is playing every day now and is untouchable in any trade.

True but the ship hasn't yet sailed on that one.......with Holliday now in the mix i see colby losing time to Ankiel

Both players have been on the roster for the last month. Ankiel's barely played while Rasmus has been playing every day. I don't see why it'd change now.

I hope your right

[Michael]

FTR, Beyond the Boxscore thinks we got severely kicked in the ass in the trade but goes on to say that it adds 15% to our odds of making the playoffs. I think if this was a different GM (Beane) a lot of people would have a different opinion. But since so many bloggers are so far up Beane's ass that they can see the enamel on his teeth, it gets skewered in the wrong direction.

I think many of the bloggers aren't taking the potential comp. picks into consideration, or the possibility of re-signing Holliday.

Either that or they're seriously overvaluing Motensen.

I agree. It's disappointing vivaelbirdos didn't mention the picks possibility in their opening salvo.

They're usually more on the ball, and cover all the bases.

I think the only way you can hate this trade is if you think The Walrus can stick at 3B.

I do not think The Walrus can stick at 3B

[skmsw]

Our farm system sucks again.

Well, that was bound to happen -- with or without this trade. Either Wallace is called up (and there is no one else good left in our farm system), or he was traded.

I will say this -- as one of the more outspoken critics of the organization over the last three or four YEARS, and as one of the forum's most unhappy posters with the team's direction and decisionmaking --

It has been a damn good four weeks or so.

Taking the right guy in the amateur draft, making a very sound international acquisition, trading an over-valued prospect (minor league closer) for a versatile player with a legit bat, willingness to give up a blue-chipper BUT not just for anyone, for a legit two-way impact player, not over-reaching into the Halladay sweepstakes by including Razzle and/or Waino ---

Steverino likes. Two thumbs up on the Big Picture shown in the last month or so.

Maybe the much-ballyhooed turnaround has finally arrived, in more than just intermittent, out-of-context isolated OK decisions (like drafting and signing Wallace).

[PujolJunkie]

FTR, Beyond the Boxscore thinks we got severely kicked in the ass in the trade but goes on to say that it adds 15% to our odds of making the playoffs. I think if this was a different GM (Beane) a lot of people would have a different opinion. But since so many bloggers are so far up Beane's ass that they can see the enamel on his teeth, it gets skewered in the wrong direction.

I think many of the bloggers aren't taking the potential comp. picks into consideration, or the possibility of re-signing Holliday.

Either that or they're seriously overvaluing Motensen.

I agree. It's disappointing vivaelbirdos didn't mention the picks possibility in their opening salvo.

They're usually more on the ball, and cover all the bases.

I think the only way you can hate this trade is if you think The Walrus can stick at 3B.

I do not think The Walrus can stick at 3B

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