Radio_Bugtussle wrote:Franklin did his job in game 2.
I disagree that Franklin did his job. After a bit of adversity he was terrible.
Franklin did his job. Holliday did not do his job.
I don't understand that thinking at all to be honest with you, and never will. I guess that's why we all come here though, to get a unique perspective.
Franklin did his job up until Holliday did not do his job. Then suddenly Franklin was incapable of doing his job as well.
Both failed, neither should be blamed directly for the loss. They share as much blame as the offense that couldn't score more than 2 runs a game.
TheoSqua wrote:
Both failed, neither should be blamed directly for the loss. They share as much blame as the offense that couldn't score more than 2 runs a game.
heyzeus wrote:Bottom of the 9th, game 2. Miller gets Ethier on an infield popup. Franklin comes in. He gets Manny to hit a deep fly out to center. After Holliday tried to catch the liner with his junk, Franklin walked Blake, gave up a single to Ronnie Belliard, walked Russ Martin, and gave up a single to Mark Loretta. Recording an out on any one of those last four batters would have resulted in a win or extra innings.
Holliday failed on that play. Franklin failed on the next four batters. Cards lose the game, Cards play poorly and deservedly lose the series.
Now this, on the other hand, makes complete sense to me.
Yep. I don't care who it was dropping the ball. It wasn't 2nd and 3rd 2 outs and the ball was dropped. The bases were empty with 2 outs and Franklin couldn't get a single guy out after that. They both failed.
If Ankiel had dropped that ball you'd still be going off about it. 'll say it again, in response to your argument, Holliday only deserves blame if all of the base runners in the ninth are due to his errors?
Last edited by Richie Allen on November 5 09, 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
heyzeus wrote:Bottom of the 9th, game 2. Miller gets Ethier on an infield popup. Franklin comes in. He gets Manny to hit a deep fly out to center. After Holliday tried to catch the liner with his junk, Franklin walked Blake, gave up a single to Ronnie Belliard, walked Russ Martin, and gave up a single to Mark Loretta. Recording an out on any one of those last four batters would have resulted in a win or extra innings.
Holliday failed on that play. Franklin failed on the next four batters. Cards lose the game, Cards play poorly and deservedly lose the series.
Now this, on the other hand, makes complete sense to me.
Yep. I don't care who it was dropping the ball. It wasn't 2nd and 3rd 2 outs and the ball was dropped. The bases were empty with 2 outs and Franklin couldn't get a single guy out after that. They both failed.
If Ankiel had dropped that ball you'd still be going off about it. 'll say it again, in response to your argument, Holliday only deserves blame if all of the base runners in the ninth are due to his errors?
I hate Ankiel with a passion, everyone knows that. That doesn't change how I would feel about the situation at all. I'm pissed at Holliday for dropping it, it should have been caught. But Franklin had plenty of chances to get out of it with a win and couldn't. They both failed. Had it been Ankiel dropping it probably would have been more pissed about his 3 strikeouts and pop up to 3rd earlier in the game.
clevername wrote:did Holliday do his job when he homered earlier in the game?
Well, then he should definitely be allowed to make an error that eventually costs us the game then.
What's this "allowing" him to make an error stuff? All players do some good and some bad. The amount of one vs. the other is what determines a player's value. Holliday, it just so happens, is one of the more valuable players in the game. In spite of his anger-inducing error in Game 2 of this years NLDS.
First of all, of course Holliday screwed up. I haven't seen anyone deny that.
Would you feel the same way if Holliday had made that error in the 5th inning?
All of the sudden, errors and unearned runs don't mean anything to you? Of course an error in the 5th doesn't have the same impact as booting a ball for the 27th out. That's why I said he blew the game. Catching the ball in the 5th is just another routine flyout. Dropping the ball in the 5th may have led to runs, which I'm sure if we'd lost because of there would be plenty of blame on the E7 in the 5th, and rightly so. But, and I've said it close to 100 times now, the game is OVER if he makes the catch in the 9th. No Franklin screwups. No blame anywhere. A win in game two.
Would you feel the same way if ANKIEL had made that error in the 9th inning?
Whoa, when did I say that part in bold? And who denied that Holliday screwed up? Anyone?
I was pissed about the error, and would have been equally pissed had it been made by Ankiel or anyone else. But I can put it in perspective, because I know that it takes many, many plays to make up a baseball game, a series and a season.
