Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

[lukethedrifter]

Even though it's probably going to be a moot point, I'd sooner stick needles in my eyes than see Cameron in a Cardinal uniform. His best days are far behind him. Always struck me as an underachiever. Didn't like him even before he started the pathetic, bush league, untuck-the-shirt schtick in Milwaukee.

Cameron's still worth 3-4 wins. Like Beltre, he has more value than Bay.

But I don't suppose there's any way that I can talk you down from that ledge of irrationality.

Why do you bother trying?

[Radio_Bugtussle]

Even though it's probably going to be a moot point, I'd sooner stick needles in my eyes than see Cameron in a Cardinal uniform. His best days are far behind him. Always struck me as an underachiever. Didn't like him even before he started the pathetic, bush league, untuck-the-shirt schtick in Milwaukee.

Cameron's still worth 3-4 wins. Like Beltre, he has more value than Bay.

But I don't suppose there's any way that I can talk you down from that ledge of irrationality.

Why do you bother trying?

Have you guys noticed how OLD Cameron is?

[lukethedrifter]

Even though it's probably going to be a moot point, I'd sooner stick needles in my eyes than see Cameron in a Cardinal uniform. His best days are far behind him. Always struck me as an underachiever. Didn't like him even before he started the pathetic, bush league, untuck-the-shirt schtick in Milwaukee.

Cameron's still worth 3-4 wins. Like Beltre, he has more value than Bay.

But I don't suppose there's any way that I can talk you down from that ledge of irrationality.

Why do you bother trying?

Have you guys noticed how OLD Cameron is?

That is a reasonable concern unlike most of the other cliches you post about what a cancer/underachiever/shirtuntucker that Cameron is.

[Eephus Speed]

Even though it's probably going to be a moot point, I'd sooner stick needles in my eyes than see Cameron in a Cardinal uniform. His best days are far behind him. Always struck me as an underachiever. Didn't like him even before he started the pathetic, bush league, untuck-the-shirt schtick in Milwaukee.

Cameron's still worth 3-4 wins. Like Beltre, he has more value than Bay.

But I don't suppose there's any way that I can talk you down from that ledge of irrationality.

Why do you bother trying?

A fair question. It's somewhat therapeutic, not unlike when I make fun of religion so as to avoid getting angry about it.

Regarding Cameron's age, he doesn't seem to be slowing down. Athletic body types tend to last longer. Cameron's been worth 8.3 WAR over the last 2 seasons. He's still a 3-4 win player with a little regression and a move to LF (while still playing some CF when Rasmus needs to sit).

[greenback44]

I'm still confused as to why Bay needs to sign first. Doesn't the top player usually sign first which sets the market for everyone else? Is it strictly because of the Boras factor?

Really, it is the law of supply and demand. By waiting till Bay signs, Holliday becomes the last big name outfielder. Let the bidding begin

Yeah, but why wouldn't Bay apply the exact same reasoning, that if he waits out Holliday, then he gets the big money?

I don't know if I can take a year or two of complaints about Cameron untucking his shirt after each Cardinals victory.

[TGantz]

My prediction is that we sign Smoltz, Nady, and DeRosa. My first choice (assuming that we miss out on Holliday) would be Smoltz (bullpen), Cameron, and Bedard.

[Michael]

Let's keep it friendly and treat everyone with respect. If you have a problem with a poster PM mod.

[Socnorb11]

I think that means that we're out on Holliday. No way Boras lets Holliday accept a low ball Cardinal offer before the Red Sox or Yankees have made any offer. Looks like Mo has some work to do.

I don't think it means that. If Holliday wants to play in St. Louis, then I think they'll work something out with him. If he doesn't care about playing in St. Louis, then we're probably screwed anyway.

[Radio_Bugtussle]

That is a reasonable concern unlike most of the other cliches you post about what a cancer/underachiever/shirtuntucker that Cameron is.

I also categorically refuse to consider a guy who's peak season was .267 with 25 homers at a time when 30+ HR wasn't very unusual along with 140 or more strikeouts to be anything.

I see no intelligent reason to be interested in a guy strikes out a lot and who might manage to get his average all the way up to .250 and might get somewhere near 20 HR's if the wind is right--especially if this guy is well beyond 30.

At most, he's a guy you add to this team under emergency conditions in August and then release him in November. Sort of like Jose Vizcaino in '06.

[Radio_Bugtussle]

That is a reasonable concern unlike most of the other cliches you post about what a cancer/underachiever/shirtuntucker that Cameron is.

I also categorically refuse to consider a guy who's peak season was .267 with 25 homers at a time when 30+ HR wasn't very unusual along with 140 or more strikeouts to be anything special.

I see no intelligent reason to be interested in a guy strikes out a lot and who might manage to get his average all the way up to .250 and might get somewhere near 20 HR's if the wind is right--especially if this guy is well beyond 30.

At most, he's a guy you add to this team under emergency conditions in August and then release him in November. Sort of like Jose Vizcaino in '06.