JL21 wrote:If that's legit, even if they don't get him, I'm berry berry happy with ownership right now. That's a damn good offer.
And yeah, it's less than the Tex deal last season. BFD. The Cardinals aren't the Yankees. I'm not real keen on going to 8 years but it shows that they're willing to go above and beyond to get the deal done.
I can't believe it wouldn't get it done. Throw in an NTC and call a press conference.
8 years of stability, 120 million bucks. low stress environment. Great organization. Pujols. Demonstrated commitment to winning.
where do I sign?
Of course if BoSox are willing to go to 180 million, 60 mil is a lot of coin to throw away.
Definitely. If this is legit, I'm thrilled with the effort. And if Boras has kept quiet this long, it's my hope that there is serious negotiating taking place.
If Lackey's physical in Boston is for real, it could force Boras' hand a bit.
JL21 wrote:If that's legit, even if they don't get him, I'm berry berry happy with ownership right now. That's a damn good offer.
And yeah, it's less than the Tex deal last season. BFD. The Cardinals aren't the Yankees. I'm not real keen on going to 8 years but it shows that they're willing to go above and beyond to get the deal done.
I don't care about the Tex deal . . . . switch-hitter, younger, better defensive player, etc etc etc.
But honestly, if they made an offer with an AAV of $14, it sort of falls into the lip-service, appease-the-fans category for me. Bay has turned down multiple offers with AAV of $15+. I know the total dollars matter, but an AAV of $14 seems like it is not even in the ballpark. But the team can say "we offered 8 years!" "we offered more than $110mm!" They have a point, but is there really a reason to think that would get it done?
Maclowery wrote:Wow, I never would have guessed the Cards would offer an 8 year deal. Here's to the tiny part of Holliday that wants to say "screw it, Boras, I wanna bat after AP for eight years. I'm taking it."
Do you think the Sox will offer something like 8/140 and trump us? Or are they hoping for a shorter contract with more cash per year?
Don't count the Yankees out, either. With the Red Sox on the move (apparently ready to sign Lackey, possibly trade for another big-time player), the Yankees may feel the need to counter by bringing in a guy like Holliday.
With the types of players that have been in on the Holliday Sweepstakes (Boston, Yankees, Mets......), it would be a real heist for the Cardinals to sign him.
JL21 wrote:If that's legit, even if they don't get him, I'm berry berry happy with ownership right now. That's a damn good offer.
And yeah, it's less than the Tex deal last season. BFD. The Cardinals aren't the Yankees. I'm not real keen on going to 8 years but it shows that they're willing to go above and beyond to get the deal done.
++
I'd rather go 6 years @ 18 million rather than 8 @ 14 million.
I don't know though, what would Boras want? It seems like the Cards gave him the years but below the going rate. My guess is that other teams will give him the going rate, but not the years.
What is more important?
Boras wants both, no doubt. To me, the years would be important. Who knows what Holliday wants. I think there will be some give and take and our final offer will land somewhere in the 7/110-119 area. Which would be a helluva offer.
JL21 wrote:If that's legit, even if they don't get him, I'm berry berry happy with ownership right now. That's a damn good offer.
And yeah, it's less than the Tex deal last season. BFD. The Cardinals aren't the Yankees. I'm not real keen on going to 8 years but it shows that they're willing to go above and beyond to get the deal done.
I don't care about the Tex deal . . . . switch-hitter, younger, better defensive player, etc etc etc.
But honestly, if they made an offer with an AAV of $14, it sort of falls into the lip-service, appease-the-fans category for me. Bay has turned down multiple offers with AAV of $15+. I know the total dollars matter, but an AAV of $14 seems like it is not even in the ballpark. But the team can say "we offered 8 years!" "we offered more than $110mm!" They have a point, but is there really a reason to think that would get it done?
I'm pretty much with you. The only reason it "might" be enough to get it done would be because there really AREN'T any other offers coming in. If the Yankees truly are done after the Granderson trade (and I'm not saying they are), and if the Red Sox truly are going another direction (Lackey, and possibly a major trade), then Boras or more or less screwed.
Lots of "ifs", and I don't necessarily buy it. But there's definitely a scenario in which an offer like 15/8 could get the job done.
JL21 wrote:If that's legit, even if they don't get him, I'm berry berry happy with ownership right now. That's a damn good offer.
And yeah, it's less than the Tex deal last season. BFD. The Cardinals aren't the Yankees. I'm not real keen on going to 8 years but it shows that they're willing to go above and beyond to get the deal done.
I don't care about the Tex deal . . . . switch-hitter, younger, better defensive player, etc etc etc.
But honestly, if they made an offer with an AAV of $14, it sort of falls into the lip-service, appease-the-fans category for me. Bay has turned down multiple offers with AAV of $15+. I know the total dollars matter, but an AAV of $14 seems like it is not even in the ballpark. But the team can say "we offered 8 years!" "we offered more than $110mm!" They have a point, but is there really a reason to think that would get it done?
An 8 year deal would cover Holliday into his LATE 30's. That's a TON of job security. Even at a little less than market value $$ wise, that money is still money. I think it's a definite step in the right direction considering payroll, etc.
I like it as a starting point. It lets them work backwards on the years, while agreeing to more salary. They have to expect that salary would need to go up, and if they weren't interested in doing that I think we'd know by now. On the off-chance Holliday is more interested in length of contract than Boras, it might help there too.
I'll say this about Boras. If he ever writes a book after retiring, I'm buying it.
JL21 wrote:If that's legit, even if they don't get him, I'm berry berry happy with ownership right now. That's a damn good offer.
And yeah, it's less than the Tex deal last season. BFD. The Cardinals aren't the Yankees. I'm not real keen on going to 8 years but it shows that they're willing to go above and beyond to get the deal done.
++
I'd rather go 6 years @ 18 million rather than 8 @ 14 million.
I don't know though, what would Boras want? It seems like the Cards gave him the years but below the going rate. My guess is that other teams will give him the going rate, but not the years.
What is more important?
Boras wants both, no doubt. To me, the years would be important. Who knows what Holliday wants. I think there will be some give and take and our final offer will land somewhere in the 7/110-119 area. Which would be a helluva offer.
I'd take that, but I'm thinking it will be at the higher end.
Like I said, it's a good starting point. It's enough to show interest and not overpay on the first bid. They have shown that they are willing to go the years but at a lower rate. With that, they gave Boras an upper and lower bound. From there I expect the years to shrink but the average yearly salary to go up if they are negotiating.
I don't think I'd ever go into a car dealership and make an offer to pay MSRP.
thoughts of paying Holliday and Pujols a ton of money when they're both nearing 40 worries me, but I'd ultimately be ok with the 8 years if it gets the deal done.
so, this thread: o/u 100 pages before we get a Holliday decision?
I think those suggesting that it's a good starting point are right on. I just hope any offer doesn't include a player opt-out. If Boras wants an opt-out, make it mutual.
