General Soccer Thread

[thrill]

Very CONCACAFish game.

Swap Gonzo over Alvarado. Evans over Chandler. Garza at LB, move Fab up to the midfield, we'll be all good on Friday. I mean, we will be anyway, but it won't be quite as ugly.

[Fat Strat]

Very CONCACAFish game. .... Swap Gonzo over Alvarado. Evans over Chandler. Garza at LB, move Fab up to the midfield, we'll be all good on Friday. I mean, we will be anyway, but it won't be quite as ugly.

I don't really like Fabian up in the midfield. I mean, he's fine there. Good even, but his runs from LB are huge. Zardes was fine last night; I don't want to lose him to Johnson when I can have both players out there. Had some moments, both good and bad, but he just always seems to create a couple real scoring possibilities per game. Some of those are going to get into the net.

Yes, we were getting knocked around in general CONCACAF fashion, but we also struggled to string possession together. I would pull Beckerman and replace him with Bedoya. It just seemed like Bradley had little to work with all night. He was smothered. Maybe they were keying on him because they knew Beckerman wouldn't run? I liked the way that the Mix/Bedoya + Bradley combo in the center mid created space for Bradley in Europe and Guatemala. We played too much "dump it in" ball last night, trying to go over the top to hit Yedlin. Not a great strategy, and we were getting killed on quick counters.

I think Clint would disagree with your assessment of him being a secondary player now...

Lol, yeah. I'll take it! I didn't really mean he's a secondary player in terms of skill, just that he's not the engine anymore. We were scoring well without him. And I didn't think he really created well last night. He has a real knack for being in the right place at the right time -- which is a legitimate veteran skill and made the difference last night.

[TimeForGuinness]

Very CONCACAFish game.

Swap Gonzo over Alvarado. Evans over Chandler. Garza at LB, move Fab up to the midfield, we'll be all good on Friday. I mean, we will be anyway, but it won't be quite as ugly.

I like this...I'm just happy we made it by Honduras without anyone getting injured. Like you said, "very CONCACAFish game"...I think the Honduras game plan was to try to kill the Yedlin.

[Fat Strat]

Very CONCACAFish game.

Swap Gonzo over Alvarado. Evans over Chandler. Garza at LB, move Fab up to the midfield, we'll be all good on Friday. I mean, we will be anyway, but it won't be quite as ugly.

I like this...I'm just happy we made it by Honduras without anyone getting injured. Like you said, "very CONCACAFish game"...I think the Honduras game plan was to try to kill the Yedlin.

And Bradley and Dempsey. "He has the ball... GET HIM!" That's what it looked like to me. Frustrating.

[thrill]

I don't really like Fabian up in the midfield. I mean, he's fine there. Good even, but his runs from LB are huge.

For lack of better soccer specific terminology, I think that Fab's WAR is higher at LB than LM, but I think the combined WAR of Garza + Fab is higher than Fab + Zardes against a bunkering CONCACAF style opponent. Zardes is a wide forward, he's not a midfielder. If we're playing Mexico, or an opponent that isn't just trying to clog the midfield, I'd be ok with the Fab/Zardes left side combo. He can't dribble or pass, isn't as positionally sound as Fab. Which absolutely contributed to this:

Yes, we were getting knocked around in general CONCACAF fashion, but we also struggled to string possession together.

Because we had no width. Neither Yedlin or Zardes we're good enough on the ball to relive the pressure. There were no passing lanes for Beckerman unless it was Bradley dropping back to make himself available which takes him out of his ideal position to receive the ball and initiate the attack. So then he drops deep and that leaves Jozy and Deuce isolated, so Deuce drops deep to make himself available and Yedlin and Zardes aren't cutting in to help. Yedlin was better than Zardes though.

I would pull Beckerman and replace him with Bedoya. It just seemed like Bradley had little to work with all night. He was smothered. Maybe they were keying on him because they knew Beckerman wouldn't run? I liked the way that the Mix/Bedoya + Bradley combo in the center mid created space for Bradley in Europe and Guatemala. We played too much "dump it in" ball last night, trying to go over the top to hit Yedlin. Not a great strategy, and we were getting killed on quick counters.

I thought Beckerman was one of the only guys who did his job last night. Klinsmann plays him because he does one job and he does it better than anyone in the player pool. Break up attacks, hurt people in the tackle and make smart short passes to the guys who initiate the offense. He did that better than Mix would/could. Honduras just always had an extra man or two in the midfield because Zardes and Yedlin are not midfielders. They don't cut in and combine. That leaves Bradley with too much running to do and Beckerman with no pressure release at his disposal other than a back pass to the center backs. I think there's some question to Bedoya's health. I think he'd be starting on the right wing if he was fully fit.

I put that squarely on Klinsmann's feet. You can have one winger that just runs up the flanks, but you can't have two when you're playing vs a 5 man midfield.

[thrill]

Also,

are we going to talk about Yedlin's troubling "Carpe Diem" tramp stamp or is it best to just pretend that's not something we all saw?

[Fat Strat]

Also,

are we going to talk about Yedlin's troubling "Carpe Diem" tramp stamp or is it best to just pretend that's not something we all saw?

You... didn't... see... anything...

[Fat Strat]

Because we had no width. Neither Yedlin or Zardes we're good enough on the ball to relive the pressure. There were no passing lanes for Beckerman unless it was Bradley dropping back to make himself available which takes him out of his ideal position to receive the ball and initiate the attack. So then he drops deep and that leaves Jozy and Deuce isolated, so Deuce drops deep to make himself available and Yedlin and Zardes aren't cutting in to help. Yedlin was better than Zardes though.
...
I thought Beckerman was one of the only guys who did his job last night. Klinsmann plays him because he does one job and he does it better than anyone in the player pool. Break up attacks, hurt people in the tackle and make smart short passes to the guys who initiate the offense. He did that better than Mix would/could. Honduras just always had an extra man or two in the midfield because Zardes and Yedlin are not midfielders. They don't cut in and combine. That leaves Bradley with too much running to do and Beckerman with no pressure release at his disposal other than a back pass to the center backs. I think there's some question to Bedoya's health. I think he'd be starting on the right wing if he was fully fit.

I put that squarely on Klinsmann's feet. You can have one winger that just runs up the flanks, but you can't have two when you're playing vs a 5 man midfield.

There is a lot of truth to what you are saying. So... pull Yedlin or Zardes and throw Bedoya or Mix in that wing midfield spot. And/or pull Beckerman and see if Bedoya can play defensive midfield spot and create better combinations.

Some of it is going to depend on matchups. Honduras was a street fight. Beckerman fits there. If we can play with more finesse against another club, then use one of the other two, or both -- Bedoya playing center, Mix playing wing.

[thrill]

Mix playing wing brings up a thing I was thinking about. Mix has played center mid his whole career, either in an attacking or defensive capacity. Now NYCFC has Frank Lampard and Andrea Pirlo in the center. It'll be interesting to see where Mix fits into that team. He'll have to get some minutes on the wing unless Jason Kreis comes up with something creative. Could pay off for the national team if he takes to the role.

My ideal starting 11 for the Gold Cup squad would be:

------------------------------Guzan
Yedlin-----------Gonzalez--------Brooks----------Garza
----------------------------Beckerman
Bedoya--------------------Bradley----------------Johnson
---------------------Altidore-------Dempsey

I think to your point that if we play more of a finesse team, Mix could fit in for Beckerman, that as long as Gonzalez plays instead of Alvarado in that case, it'd be a good idea. Need that steady, experienced presence back there.

[MrSaigon]

Altidore and Dempsey are practically secondary players now. Should be a lot of fun to watch.

I think Clint would disagree with your assessment of him being a secondary player now...

But I'm sure he'll behave gracefully in disagreement (cover your balls).