General Soccer Thread

[MrSaigon]

Another problem with soccer: We just signed some Argentine that I'm supposed to be really excited about, but I have to take everyone's word for that. I don't follow the Argentine league terribly closely--which is to say 'at all'. Whatever first baseman the Cardinals add, I will have heard of him and have a rough idea of what to expect. Problem with a global game.

[MrSaigon]

Dang, I missed Stevie G's debut. I see he's already drawing ridiculous superstar PKs. He was always my favorite when watching BPL overseas. Might take him a few weeks to get up to whining at a LAG level. I'm excited to have him, but LAG already came through Portland, unfortunately.

One more thing I hate about soccer: how emphatically PKs are celebrated. Seems silly to me.

[thrill]

LA might have the best team in MLS history on their hands. They're missing one of the best CB's and FWD's in the league and they're killing people.

[thrill]

Tim Howard is coming back.
http://www.noshortcorners.com/2015/07/h ... eturn.html

[thrill]

Sup, Jurgen? Sup, Sunil? Shouts to Matt Besler. Shouts to Bob Bradley.


I'm never really a root against your team to get someone fired kind of guy. People who know what they're watching should be able to tell what's going on regardless of results, but I'm a little glad this happened. A lot of people have been hesitant to go all in against Klinsmann for various reasons. He's famous. He's persuasive. His tenure has coincided with a lot of fan growth that doesn't have much to do with him. Most of the new fans aren't deep in the game enough to know he sucks. Certain media loves him.

He can't hide from this performance though. He could hide from the World Cup because people bought the narrative that we were supposed to lose. We were, but we were also supposed to have a fighting chance with a tactical system that suited our roster. We were supposed to have Landon Donovan. He could hide from a run of friendly malaise because he pulled enough unexpected results out to distract from curious roster construction and incoherent tactics. This, though...this is one of the worst losses in USS history.

He's a joke, he's brought nothing of substance to the table and he has to go for this team to move forward. He appeals to all the worst insecurities of the U.S. Soccer community and has been hiding his bull [expletive] in plain sight for 4 years now because too many people prefer the illusion of international credibility and notoriety to quiet progress and steady development.

Just because a famous guy tells you he's doing a great job doesn't mean he doesn't suck.

[Hoot45]

I'm torn between declaring that one of the most atrocious USMNT matches I've ever seen and giving Jamaica a lot of credit. I also found myself disagreeing with many of the player ratings in the papers, so apparently I'm just confused all around. It doesn't help that I watched the CONCACAF atrocity between Mexico and Panama.

This is going to give you an aneurism, thrill, and I hear what you're saying, but I'm not going to blame Jurgen for this loss. Even if the formation, personnel, and subs were weak - which they were - Jurgen can't control the Americans hitting the post twice, Johannsson missing a wide open header, a miraculous flicked header goal, poor positioning from Guzan on both Jamaican goals, a rare handling foul outside the box, and traditionally strong performers like Michael Bradley turning the ball over most the time it came into his possession. From my chair the majority of the blame goes on the players.

I'm not saying Jurgen is a savior who can do no wrong. He most definitely has his flaws and should remain under evaluation. But I think everyone calling for his head this morning are just basking in the loss to reinforce their longstanding grind against Jurgen instead of facing the reality that this game was mostly blown by the players, including players you can normally count on. Find four dozen things Jurgen did wrong this tournament - fine - but don't ignore just how awful the performance was on the field.

Now, call me ignorant of American soccer if you'd like, or maybe stupid or even a soccer hipster (again). But I'm not here to defend Jurgen, I'm here to say that those attacking him are ignoring a bigger reality in favor of trumpeting their agenda.

[go birds]

WHAT IN THE FUUUUUUUUUUU WAS GUZMAN DOING ON BOTH THOSE GOALS?????????????????

[Freed Roger]

Question from the ignorant - what does this do to US in WC eligibility?

[thrill]

Question from the ignorant - what does this do to US in WC eligibility?

Nothing. World Cup qualifying starts for us next year. It does mean we are in a playoff with whoever wins this tourney to qualify for the Confederation's Cup which pits the World Cup host against the champion of South America, Africa, Asia, Europe, North America and Oceania. It's basically a tournament of friendlies, but it's great experience ahead of the World Cup and is fun to watch.

This is going to give you an aneurism, thrill, and I hear what you're saying, but I'm not going to blame Jurgen for this loss. Even if the formation, personnel, and subs were weak - which they were - Jurgen can't control the Americans hitting the post twice, Johannsson missing a wide open header, a miraculous flicked header goal, poor positioning from Guzan on both Jamaican goals, a rare handling foul outside the box, and traditionally strong performers like Michael Bradley turning the ball over most the time it came into his possession. From my chair the majority of the blame goes on the players.

I actually agree. It's really annoying that the Klinsmann conversation has become so binary in the online soccer community. You're either against him and everything is his fault or you're for him and he's untouchable. You're 100% right. Last night's game was pretty simple. The US outplayed Jamaica but didn't finish. Jamaica did. A good team lost to a worse team, but credit Jamaica for being pretty physically talented and overcoming the mental hurdle of beating the US. One result isn't an indictment of Klinsmann like a lot of people are making it out to be. Those players on that field should have beaten Jamaica regardless of never having played with that lineup before and in a tactical set up that played to Jamaica's strengths.

BUT

It's not about one result. It's about the big picture. A result like this was always inevitable because of Jurgen's inability to settle on a semi-consistent lineup and tactical set up. It was inevitable because he never changes his strategy based on opponent. It was inevitable because this team has looked mediocre all tournament. When your coach does nothing but talk about the future but can't win a game without the force of will of a 32 year old Clint Dempsey and the steady service of other past their prime guys like Beckerman, Howard, Jones and Beasley, I don't see much of a future on the immediate horizon. I'm not at all worried about qualifying for the World Cup or even really getting out of the group. That's pretty inevitable at this point. I'm worried about Klinsmann being a snake oil salesman who has no idea about how to deliver on his stated goals. I watched his regime at Bayern Munich very closely and it was clear this guy has no idea what he's doing when it comes to implementing his vision. Same story here with the national team. Big talk, same results. Anyone can say the words, but building a team to actually do it is for a real coach. Maybe he stays on as technical director and hires a manager and pulls it off. Problem is, I don't know what real manager would want to work for him. I don't know. I just know he's not the guy I want running the national team. His constant refusal to accept responsibility for bad results and his willingness to accept credit for good ones is annoying. His seeming disdain for MLS is short sighted and not objective. Those things bug me, but ultimately Jurgen isn't my biggest gripe. It's the carte blanche he gets from Sunil Gulati that gets to me. When Bruce Arena and Bob Bradley we're getting slightly better results than this dude, I always felt like they would be held accountable if their teams started underachieving and that ended up being true. Arena had a brilliant 8 year run that ended in a poor one week run at the wrong time in Germany. Bradley had a solid 4 years with some good luck and some bad and when Mexico beat him in a gold cup final, he was fired. Jurgen has had a very similar run to Bradley in that he's had some good luck (the Ronaldo injury, the Pepe red card vs Germany, Mexico consistently underachieving at Azteca last cycle) and some bad luck (Wondo, last night's finishing) and here the US has lost to a Caribbean team for the first time since 1968, lost in the semifinal not the final, lost to the first CONCACAF team not named Mexico for the first time in Gold Cup history and there's no [expletive] way he gets fired. None. I want more accountability for that.

I also don't feel his teams are tactically prepared and I think his worst sin is how he's miscast Michael Bradley, making him the midfield runner rather than the deep lying QB role that transformed his career when he moved to Italy from Germany, and had him with the third highest passing percentage in Serie A for a three year run.

Now, call me ignorant of American soccer if you'd like, or maybe stupid or even a soccer hipster (again).

To be clear, I was including myself in the stupid soccer hipster community.

[Hoot45]

Good stuff, thrill. Everything you are saying is spot on. I definitely feel you on this.