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jagtrader wrote:This isn't a one-game issue with La Russa. He has a habit of moving the pitcher's spot around in the lineup (not usually cleanup, mind you) for the sake of a double switch that has limited or no benefit. The pitcher bats ninth for a reason. You don't want him jammed in the middle of all your good hitters.

He usually does the double switch when he brings in a new pitcher that he might want to go more than the balance of the current inning but the pitcher's spot is due up the next half-inning. So the benefit, if somewhat limited, is that he can bring his pitcher in and not have to immediately pinch hit for him. Of course, if a game goes additional innings, not to mention 10 to 12 additional innings, a lot of the double switching strategy can come back to bite you because you're typically getting rid of one of your starters and losing a guy off the bench. But I'd say if you looked at the benefit over time, versus the backlash the few times it backfires, you may find that the double switch is an effective way to manage late in a tight game. I think, ideally, you do a double switch when the pitcher is due up and pull your 7 or 8 hitter to move the pitcher's spot back 7 or 8 batters. You'll get no argument from me, however, that the pitcher batting cleanup was a mistake.

Opening Day had a little better example of La Russa's double-switch fetish:

Bottom 7th: Cincinnati, Cardinals leading 6-2
- At the start of the inning J. Mather enters the game in right field as part of a double-switch with D. Reyes
- J. Motte relieved D. Reyes after two batters
- Reds score a run

Top 8th: St. Louis
- J. Mather bats second

Bottom 8th: Cincinnati
- At the start of the inning K. McClellan relieved J. Motte

So he double-switched because the pitcher's spot was due up second -- fine and dandy -- and then he took the pitcher out anyway. Hell, he took the pitcher out twice. He moved the pitcher's spot up three spaces and he burned a position player for no benefit. Maybe there was something wrong with Ludwick or maybe the Reds' scoring a run dashed his plans, but this has happened enough that I'd guess TLR's decision-making went like this: Need new pitcher, pitcher due up second => double-switch. The complicating circumstances were ignored.

greenback44 wrote:Opening Day had a little better example of La Russa's double-switch fetish:

Bottom 7th: Cincinnati, Cardinals leading 6-2
- At the start of the inning J. Mather enters the game in right field as part of a double-switch with D. Reyes
- J. Motte relieved D. Reyes after two batters
- Reds score a run

Top 8th: St. Louis
- J. Mather bats second

Bottom 8th: Cincinnati
- At the start of the inning K. McClellan relieved J. Motte

So he double-switched because the pitcher's spot was due up second -- fine and dandy -- and then he took the pitcher out anyway. Hell, he took the pitcher out twice. He moved the pitcher's spot up three spaces and he burned a position player for no benefit. Maybe there was something wrong with Ludwick or maybe the Reds' scoring a run dashed his plans, but this has happened enough that I'd guess TLR's decision-making went like this: Need new pitcher, pitcher due up second => double-switch. The complicating circumstances were ignored.

He also double switched for Yadi a while back and did the same thing .. I even remember commenting that if you went back and recreated the situation you literally ended up in the same spot, except LuRussa's way used one more player in the process. Plus we ended up with Stavy catching that night.

By all quantifiable measures he's one of the best 2 or 3 managers in the game today.

StL wrote:By all quantifiable measures he's one of the best 2 or 3 managers in the game today.

And one of the worst.....2200+ losses

M1IRONMIKE wrote:

StL wrote:By all quantifiable measures he's one of the best 2 or 3 managers in the game today.

And one of the worst.....2200+ losses

So you're saying Cy Young is simultaneously the best and worst pitcher of all time?

M1IRONMIKE wrote:

StL wrote:By all quantifiable measures he's one of the best 2 or 3 managers in the game today.

And one of the worst.....2200+ losses

Seriously? You're talking wins and losses?

Wow.

StL wrote:

M1IRONMIKE wrote:

StL wrote:By all quantifiable measures he's one of the best 2 or 3 managers in the game today.

And one of the worst.....2200+ losses

Seriously? You're talking wins and losses?

Wow.

What quantifiable measure are you talking about if not wins and/or losses?

Although I know that everything starts with simpl wins are losses, I wasnt even thinking about that when I made my comment.


As far was what all Im talking about, it doesnt really matter.

StL wrote:Although I know that everything starts with simpl wins are losses, I wasnt even thinking about that when I made my comment.


As far was what all Im talking about, it doesnt really matter.

Well then ... on there.

I don't like to speak for others, but mike and I know each other and talk alot about baseball together so I'll take that liberty. I think the two of us have similar opinions of LaRussa: great manager, one of the best in the game today, wins in spite of some poor in game decision making, belongs in Cooperstown when he is finished.