Richie Allen wrote: [Eventually, someone has to simply answer this question: if Holliday makes the catch do you think we would have won game 2?
Yes.
Now,
If Franklin gets just one of the next three batters out, do you think we win the game? (took him to the 4 batter after the error to record the 3rd out.)
StL wrote:LOL.
Cards were still winning after his error. The Cards ended up losing that game. His error therefore by definition ONLY be part of the reason they didnt fly home 1-1.
Hey I dont like it any more than you do.
But there seems to be a blind spot for you and others that can't seem to see that his catching that ball ends the game. Franklin, as bad as he was the last few weeks, couldn't have possibly blown it at that point. Thus, all runs were considered unearned, despite his pitiful pitching.
Well I cant speak for "others." If someone says his error doesnt matter because we would have lost anyway, that is not my logic, even though in the big picture, I can see how they would feel that way. However, this is nothing more than alleviating accountability for the error, which I have not and will not do.
I do feel like its clear and undisputable that since his error left the Cardinals up a run in the game, it is clear that he did not cause them to lose it, but was a part of the reason they lost it and obviously the reason they didnt win it when the first opportunity arose to get the 27th out. If we take away Franklin’s accountability for allowing those two runs to score simply because they wouldn’t not have been there if Holiday had caught that ball, we are saying that its not his fault for allowing those runs…that its OK because he shouldn’t have had to face them.
The people you are referring to are not holding Holliday accountable enough and in my opinion you are not holding the rest of the players accountable enough.
Why would anyone take away Franklin's accountability? He pitched horrible. But according to the scorers, he got his three outs. The runs after the error were obviously unearned. Holliday, on the other hand, took a fairly routine play and booted it. Forcing Franklin to have to get a 4th out in the inning. So who deserves leeway, if any? The relief pitcher who, theoretically, got the 3 outs that were asked of him or the OF who did nothing that inning but make an error on the only ball hit to him? By your reasoning, Holliday's responsibility ending with the runner on second base, the only way you would ever blame him for the loss is if all of the baserunners allowed that inning were results of his errors. Three, four, five straight errors by Holliday would be the only reason to pin the loss on the left fielder.
I understand that's what his score sheet says man but damn...is that all that matters? He got three outs in that inning, so he did his job? Its as simple as that??
I am sure (my turn for an assumption) that if you ask Franklin, he'd say he didnt do his job. Holliday would say the same thing of course.
And in no way do I give any leeway to either of them. Holliday doesnt get a pass from me for that error just like Franklin doesnt get a pass from me simply because those runs werent "earned."
First, you gotta stop making [expletive] up. I didn't, and have never said anything similar to "Franklin got his three outs so he did his job." I said he pitched horrible. But there isn't constant and continuous defense of Franklin, like there is Holliday. That's my issue. Or at least why I bothered to bring it up tonight. Not whether Franklin deserves 35% of the blame vs Holliday's 65% or whatever. Franklin sucked. He blew the game. Holliday's defense on that single play sucked and it allowed us to not win game 2 (AKA cost us the win or allowed us to eventually lose).
Yea, he did [expletive] up, but who doesn't? Pujols occasionally has games where he'll let a couple grounders go right through his legs and into right field; even Ryan will occasionally sail 1 past first. It's part of the game. Unfortunately for Holliday and for us he [expletive] up when it mattered. This is the reason why I think Red Sox fans are incredibly childish to have hated Bill Buckner for so long and the same reason why I'm going to consider you guys childish for blaming Matt Holliday when without him we don't even make it to the post season and don't even have a lead in that inning where he dropped the ball.
back to the Holliday as a free agent discussion, I don't have insider but it looks like someone on ESPN is pitching the idea of the Cards letting Holliday go and getting Dunn instead.
