Former Cardinals Watch

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Does a great 2012 make trading Carlton a good move too? If Rzepczynski never amounts to more than a .5 win reliever and Rasmus is putting up ~3+ win seasons, yeah, it was a bad trade.

The reevaluation of the trade that took place over the postseason doesn't really make much sense. The players Rasmus was traded for combined for a -1.36 overall WPA for the Cardinals, so it's pretty ridiculous to pretend that they were the reason for the postseason charge. Dotel and Rzepczynski had their moments in the postseason, but that's a bit offset by Edwin Jackson sucking.

You might not be able to evaluate the trade yet, but you can pretty reasonably say that without that trade the Cardinals don't win the WS last year.

They may not have all been superstarts, but iirc,

Jackson replaced McClellan
Dotel replaced Tallet?
Scrabble replaced Miller
Jay replaced Rasmus

All of those, maybe sans the Jay Rasmus (I can't remember), resulted in improved prodution on the field last year where every little bit counted.

Who knows, Rasmus may go on to become a perennial all star while shooting 6 WAR years out his arse. But, 2011 never happens without that trade.

[Felix The Cat]

Dotel and Rzepczynski had their moments in the postseason, but that's a bit offset by Edwin Jackson sucking.

I'm guessing he sucked less than K-Mac would have as a starter down the stretch last year.

I'm still peeved that TLR aired the dirty laundry in the press leading up to the trade. The possibility of getting something more for Rasmus is all I'm upset about in retrospect. Jay's apparent emergence has softened the loss a lot and Rasmus probably never would've reached his potential here, TLR or not.

[slide_into_first]

How many years do we have to wait before we can say we are happy at not re-signing Albert Pujols?

[vinsanity]

Who knows, Rasmus may go on to become a perennial all star while shooting 6 WAR years out his arse. But, 2011 never happens without that trade.

Outside of the whole 'butterfly effect', I don't think it's fair to say that one specific trade was the only option to improving the team in a way that gets in them in the playoffs or wins the World Series.

My problem with the trade was never that they moved Rasmus, just what they got in return.

[BW23]

How many years do we have to wait before we can say we are happy at not re-signing Albert Pujols?

Do we really need to wait?

[slide_into_first]

Apparently, the current methods of statistical player evaluation underestimate the value of post season wins.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

My problem with the trade was never that they moved Rasmus, just what they got in return.

I was in the same boat.

[cpebbles]

Apparently, the current methods of statistical player evaluation underestimate the value of post season wins.

No, they estimate it fine. Eg, the players Rasmus was traded for accumulated -0.067 wins in the postseason by WPA.

[cpebbles]

They may not have all been superstarts, but iirc,

Jackson replaced McClellan
Dotel replaced Tallet?
Scrabble replaced Miller
Jay replaced Rasmus

You know you just duplicated the "logic" that had me bow out of that thread because of my inability to refute it politely.

[Radbird]

How many years do we have to wait before we can say we are happy at not re-signing Albert Pujols?

Do we really need to wait?

I'm happy, and that is not because of his slow start. I think he'll get untracked and be just fine for the next few years.

The romantic in me wanted Albert to be the Cardinals' next Stan. My practical side realizes that the Cardinals are likely to be more successful over the next 10 years without that huge payroll commitment/constraint.