Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

[Cronos]

Eh, I'm of the opinion that neither of them did their job particularly well in this case. Arguing which one screwed up worse is not only moot but unproductive.

[clevername]

did Holliday do his job when he homered earlier in the game?

[mcgee51taguchi99]

did Holliday do his job when he homered earlier in the game?

Obviously he should have hit it farther and with more people on base.

[heyzeus]

Bottom of the 9th, game 2. Miller gets Ethier on an infield popup. Franklin comes in. He gets Manny to hit a deep fly out to center. After Holliday tried to catch the liner with his junk, Franklin walked Blake, gave up a single to Ronnie Belliard, walked Russ Martin, and gave up a single to Mark Loretta. Recording an out on any one of those last four batters would have resulted in a win or extra innings.

Holliday failed on that play. Franklin failed on the next four batters. Cards lose the game, Cards play poorly and deservedly lose the series.

[Richie Allen]

Richie,

First of all, of course Holliday screwed up. I haven't seen anyone deny that.

Would you feel the same way if Holliday had made that error in the 5th inning?

All of the sudden, errors and unearned runs don't mean anything to you? Of course an error in the 5th doesn't have the same impact as booting a ball for the 27th out. That's why I said he blew the game. Catching the ball in the 5th is just another routine flyout. Dropping the ball in the 5th may have led to runs, which I'm sure if we'd lost because of there would be plenty of blame on the E7 in the 5th, and rightly so. But, and I've said it close to 100 times now, the game is OVER if he makes the catch in the 9th. No Franklin screwups. No blame anywhere. A win in game two.

Would you feel the same way if ANKIEL had made that error in the 9th inning?

[jim]

Franklin did his job in game 2.

I disagree that Franklin did his job. After a bit of adversity he was terrible.

Franklin did his job. Holliday did not do his job.

I don't understand that thinking at all to be honest with you, and never will. I guess that's why we all come here though, to get a unique perspective.

[jim]

Bottom of the 9th, game 2. Miller gets Ethier on an infield popup. Franklin comes in. He gets Manny to hit a deep fly out to center. After Holliday tried to catch the liner with his junk, Franklin walked Blake, gave up a single to Ronnie Belliard, walked Russ Martin, and gave up a single to Mark Loretta. Recording an out on any one of those last four batters would have resulted in a win or extra innings.

Holliday failed on that play. Franklin failed on the next four batters. Cards lose the game, Cards play poorly and deservedly lose the series.

Now this, on the other hand, makes complete sense to me.

[Richie Allen]

Eh, I'm of the opinion that neither of them did their job particularly well in this case. Arguing which one screwed up worse is not only moot but unproductive.

Hits and walks happen, on average, every inning. Even HBP aren't necessarily that big of a deal. But errors on somewhat routine fly balls, errors that hit your left fielder's body happen, what, you tell me. Someone let me know the last time they remember a left fielder (or any outfielder) letting a fly ball hit directly at them bounce off of their body. Now, let that rarity happen on the final out of an extremely important playoff game. A game that could have made or definitely broke our playoff hopes.

[InvincibleCakeEater]

Bottom of the 9th, game 2. Miller gets Ethier on an infield popup. Franklin comes in. He gets Manny to hit a deep fly out to center. After Holliday tried to catch the liner with his junk, Franklin walked Blake, gave up a single to Ronnie Belliard, walked Russ Martin, and gave up a single to Mark Loretta. Recording an out on any one of those last four batters would have resulted in a win or extra innings.

Holliday failed on that play. Franklin failed on the next four batters. Cards lose the game, Cards play poorly and deservedly lose the series.

Now this, on the other hand, makes complete sense to me.

Yep. I don't care who it was dropping the ball. It wasn't 2nd and 3rd 2 outs and the ball was dropped. The bases were empty with 2 outs and Franklin couldn't get a single guy out after that. They both failed.

[Richie Allen]

did Holliday do his job when he homered earlier in the game?

Well, then he should definitely be allowed to make an error that eventually costs us the game then.