Mozeliak: "Some Changes" Coming For Cardinals, But Not A Rebuild

[Magneto2.0]

Please pity a half-assed fan here. I saw a headline ranking Arenado destinations. How on the block is he?

There would be less than a 1% chance they'd trade him without a no trade clause, with one, it's .0000001%

[haltz]

It’s the same organization that was top 12 in ERA a decade running. Whatever development flaws were overcome until this season. Mikolas, Wainwright, Hudson, Matz and Pallante started 110 games last year. The team won 93 games.

To some extent. At the same time we spent the last two trade deadlines bringing in Lester, Happ, Montgomery, and Quintana to keep the rotation afloat, because we didn't have good in-house options. One of the guys we traded away could have really helped the whole outfield defense problem we've got now. We also keep pissing away free agent dollars on mediocre (or worse) veteran bullpen arms because we can't seem to develop any of our own relievers that can stay good (or healthy) for more than one season.

I'm repeating myself here but while the pitching has regressed some (we all saw that coming), a bigger chunk of the run prevention woes this year is because the defense has gone from very good to very bad.

[MrCrowesGarden]

The NL West is pretty close. The Dodgers have dominated the division, but every other team (usually the Giants, although all the others have popped from time to time) has had a 90+ win season in that span.

It's okay but the Padres, Rockies and Diamondbacks are usually always bad outside of a year or two where they pop out and have a respectable season. This isn't to say the NL Central is good, I think what separates the NL and AL central is the top team over the last 3-4 years hasn't been as good as the other division's top teams, but the rest of the divisions are typically mediocre. I don't think we'd win the other divisions outside of the AL Central the last handful of years but I push back that we'd be a bottom feeder/non-playoff contender in other divisions over the last few years.

I’d agree with most of that. They’d be worse off but to what extent, I’m not sure

[Lesson]

I'm repeating myself here but while the pitching has regressed some (we all saw that coming), a bigger chunk of the run prevention woes this year is because the defense has gone from very good to very bad.

I don't know how much of that could have easily been foreseen, though. I get Walker being in the OF bringing the defense down, but having Carlson, TON, and Noot miss a decent amount of time throughout the season is not something that could have easily been forecasted, in addition to Donovan being hurt as well as Edman.

Now, if someone wants to say they should have traded Yepez, Baker, or Burleson for a glove first, bat second OF, I think that's fair criticism, but I don't think it would solve problems long-term in the OF.

And, while Arenado is a stud and I don't want him playing anywhere else, he's had arguably his worst season defensively this year.

I'm willing to be a bit more lenient for the defensive struggles than I am the pitching issues.

Edited to add: Here's a link to an article that breaks out Arenado's struggles defensively this season:: https://www.sportsinfosolutions.com/202 ... uns-saved/

[sighyoung]

Please pity a half-assed fan here. I saw a headline ranking Arenado destinations. How on the block is he?

There would be less than a 1% chance they'd trade him without a no trade clause, with one, it's .0000001%

Yeah, it's summer intern-generated clickbait season once again.

[Magneto2.0]

I'm repeating myself here but while the pitching has regressed some (we all saw that coming), a bigger chunk of the run prevention woes this year is because the defense has gone from very good to very bad.

I don't know how much of that could have easily been foreseen, though. I get Walker being in the OF bringing the defense down, but having Carlson, TON, and Noot miss a decent amount of time throughout the season is not something that could have easily been forecasted, in addition to Donovan being hurt as well as Edman.

Now, if someone wants to say they should have traded Yepez, Baker, or Burleson for a glove first, bat second OF, I think that's fair criticism, but I don't think it would solve problems long-term in the OF.

And, while Arenado is a stud and I don't want him playing anywhere else, he's had arguably his worst season defensively this year.

I'm willing to be a bit more lenient for the defensive struggles than I am the pitching issues.

Edited to add: Here's a link to an article that breaks out Arenado's struggles defensively this season:: https://www.sportsinfosolutions.com/202 ... uns-saved/

Idk man, none of those guys have any track record of playing a full season in their career. Going into a season where only 1 of your outfielders has gone back to back seasons playing over 100 games is very risky.

Nootbaar is basically still getting his feet wet in the majors, only played 108 games last year.

O'Neill games played in his career maxed out at 138 during his MVP-ish season. Last year was his second highest at 96. But every other year it's 50-60 games.

Carlson is another one who missed a significant amount of time last year due to injury. He doesn't have a long history of being health for a full season, and he was your most durable outfielder.

That outfield was "Best case scenario it could be good" but it had a LOT of question marks. A lot of fans were lobbying for them to go after a more durable and consistent bat for the outfield. One that has a track record. People been calling for that for the last few seasons. They've been patching this outfield together for a while now.

[dmarx114]

But Alcantara, Gallen, Arozarena, and Garcia not being on the Cardinals are mistakes he has to own, and he does. We can't crush Mo for not being able to spend money he isn't allowed to spend, but he has to be better in trades. Mo will have the opportunity to prove himself this deadline and next off season to fix the rotation and bullpen.

Great, he owns the mistakes of trading away great players… that they failed to develop or even understood that they had them in the system. What does owning it have to do with anything? They’re still playing for other teams.

As for proving himself, I think we have enough data to suggest it’s not gonna be an elite team under his watch. I want to watch an elite team.

How do you define an elite team?

[Lesson]

Idk man, none of those guys have any track record of playing a full season in their career. Going into a season where only 1 of your outfielders has gone back to back seasons playing over 100 games is very risky.

Nootbaar is basically still getting his feet wet in the majors, only played 108 games last year.

O'Neill games played in his career maxed out at 138 during his MVP-ish season. Last year was his second highest at 96. But every other year it's 50-60 games.

Carlson is another one who missed a significant amount of time last year due to injury. He doesn't have a long history of being health for a full season, and he was your most durable outfielder.

That outfield was "Best case scenario it could be good" but it had a LOT of question marks. A lot of fans were lobbying for them to go after a more durable and consistent bat for the outfield. One that has a track record. People been calling for that for the last few seasons. They've been patching this outfield together for a while now.

They didn't bring in anyone to directly replace Dickerson, who was a bad defender, but I think the argument that they should have brought someone who could at least platoon with Carlson is fair, due to his splits.

I believe Noot is a full-time OF. TON, unfortunately, has had injury issues his entire time in the bigs. You might be right that it was foolish to bank on him playing a majority of the season, but I could see the argument of having an OF composition full-time of this:

TON
Noot
Carlson
Walker
Donovan
FA acquisition
Whoever Yepez or Burleson could've been traded for

I'm willing to accept the plan they had for the OF while not personally agreeing with it, unlike their plan for pitching.

[thrill]

they havent won an NLCS game since 2014

Only 8 teams have, which is a success rate I think the ownership is clearly comfortable with.

[MrCrowesGarden]

I could have counted wrong but I have 9 teams, which means the Cardinals are in the company of the Marlins, Reds, Pirates, Rockies and Diamondbacks.