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jim wrote: LaRussa's moves have been labeled "genius" by many, but I say that there is a very thin line between genius and idiot.

I've enjoyed having TLR as the Cardinal's manager. Couldn't believe our good fortune when he signed up in '96. But I agree, crap like you call out is happening a lot more. Maybe its time...

jim wrote:Yesterday, Molina is up with a guy on 3rd and 1 out and we are down 3 in the 7th I think.

There also was a runner on first, and Molina did end up grounding into a double play. That's not to say I agree with his decision, but it gives some insight into La Russa's decision-making. There were no considerations for risks and rewards, because all that mattered was avoiding the double play. It's not the most sophisticated approach.

greenback44 wrote:

jim wrote:Yesterday, Molina is up with a guy on 3rd and 1 out and we are down 3 in the 7th I think.

There also was a runner on first, and Molina did end up grounding into a double play. That's not to say I agree with his decision, but it gives some insight into La Russa's decision-making. There were no considerations for risks and rewards, because all that mattered was avoiding the double play. It's not the most sophisticated approach.

Exactly my point. If your primary focus is avoiding the DP with a hitter down 3 late in a game at a hitters park, then what does that say about the hitter? And yet, when he represents the tying run with 2 outs in the 9th and options on the bench, you let him hit.

In isolation you can at least find a train of thought that gets you to the decision taken(even if you disagree with it, as I did with the squeeze attempt), but taken together you can not. I'm trying to say that it's not necessarily making decisions that I don't agree with as much as it is of making decisions that seem completely inconsistent.

Bringing the umbrella and not using it when it rains.

jim wrote:

greenback44 wrote:

jim wrote:Yesterday, Molina is up with a guy on 3rd and 1 out and we are down 3 in the 7th I think.

There also was a runner on first, and Molina did end up grounding into a double play. That's not to say I agree with his decision, but it gives some insight into La Russa's decision-making. There were no considerations for risks and rewards, because all that mattered was avoiding the double play. It's not the most sophisticated approach.

Exactly my point. If your primary focus is avoiding the DP with a hitter down 3 late in a game at a hitters park, then what does that say about the hitter? And yet, when he represents the tying run with 2 outs in the 9th and options on the bench, you let him hit.

In isolation you can at least find a train of thought that gets you to the decision taken(even if you disagree with it, as I did with the squeeze attempt), but taken together you can not. I'm trying to say that it's not necessarily making decisions that I don't agree with as much as it is of making decisions that seem completely inconsistent.

Bringing the umbrella and not using it when it rains.

Or planning for the 15th inning.

jim wrote:If your primary focus is avoiding the DP with a hitter down 3 late in a game at a hitters park, then what does that say about the hitter?

Yeah, if I had expressed an equivalent opinion of Molina in words, then a couple of posters would've been all over me.

OTOH when is the last time he pulled Molina for a pinch hitter (clutch situation, not garbage time)? I'm pretty sure one of La Russa's rules is that you don't pinch hit for one of the Inner Core position players (maybe he is on double-secret probation after yesterday's game though). The way La Russa manages, I feel like I'm watching Marcel Marceau in his invisible box. For whatever reason, I find the reverse engineering of all these rules, some of them contradictory, fascinating.

jim wrote:

greenback44 wrote:

jim wrote:Yesterday, Molina is up with a guy on 3rd and 1 out and we are down 3 in the 7th I think.

There also was a runner on first, and Molina did end up grounding into a double play. That's not to say I agree with his decision, but it gives some insight into La Russa's decision-making. There were no considerations for risks and rewards, because all that mattered was avoiding the double play. It's not the most sophisticated approach.

Exactly my point. If your primary focus is avoiding the DP with a hitter down 3 late in a game at a hitters park, then what does that say about the hitter? And yet, when he represents the tying run with 2 outs in the 9th and options on the bench, you let him hit.

In isolation you can at least find a train of thought that gets you to the decision taken(even if you disagree with it, as I did with the squeeze attempt), but taken together you can not. I'm trying to say that it's not necessarily making decisions that I don't agree with as much as it is of making decisions that seem completely inconsistent.

Bringing the umbrella and not using it when it rains.

We can't rub a magic lamp and wish for Johnny Bench. What does that say about the hitter? That he's terrible. But he's our catcher, and we don't have a better one.

Vidor wrote:
We can't rub a magic lamp and wish for Johnny Bench. What does that say about the hitter? That he's terrible. But he's our catcher, and we don't have a better one.

I don't disagree with anything you said right there. The fact of the matter is, Stavy pinch-hitting would have represented an upgrade over Molina at the plate. And, then you can bring in LaRue to catch if magic happens. Right, Molina is a better catcher than LaRue. But, you're going to win a game more times going to the 10th with a backup catcher than losing it in the 9th.

Vidor wrote:

jim wrote:

greenback44 wrote:

jim wrote:Yesterday, Molina is up with a guy on 3rd and 1 out and we are down 3 in the 7th I think.

There also was a runner on first, and Molina did end up grounding into a double play. That's not to say I agree with his decision, but it gives some insight into La Russa's decision-making. There were no considerations for risks and rewards, because all that mattered was avoiding the double play. It's not the most sophisticated approach.

Exactly my point. If your primary focus is avoiding the DP with a hitter down 3 late in a game at a hitters park, then what does that say about the hitter? And yet, when he represents the tying run with 2 outs in the 9th and options on the bench, you let him hit.

In isolation you can at least find a train of thought that gets you to the decision taken(even if you disagree with it, as I did with the squeeze attempt), but taken together you can not. I'm trying to say that it's not necessarily making decisions that I don't agree with as much as it is of making decisions that seem completely inconsistent.

Bringing the umbrella and not using it when it rains.

We can't rub a magic lamp and wish for Johnny Bench. What does that say about the hitter? That he's terrible. But he's our catcher, and we don't have a better one.

That wasn't my point. My point was that the situation screamed for a PH, one was a available, and the manager made a move earlier that flew in the face of any accepted baseball strategy in what appeared to be a desperation attempt to work around a desperate situation. So if he realized the situation was pretty desperate, as he seemed to signify with his bizarre 7th inning manauever, why didn't he act on it in a very conventional manner in the 9th?

Vidor wrote:We can't rub a magic lamp and wish for Johnny Bench. What does that say about the hitter? That he's terrible. But he's our catcher, and we don't have a better one.

What he's saying is, either you trust Molina or you don't.
The two moves, independently are defensible. But they were in similar situations, so together they are contradictions.

In the 7th, TLR said he didn't trust Molina to not hit in to a double play and ordered a squeeze. Ok, that's fine - save the pinch hitter.
In the 9th, TLR said he did trust Molina to not hit in to a double play, and let him swing away. What changed in the two innings? He wanted to save the power hitter for another situation, but when that do-or-die situation arose he left the pinch hitter on the bench, and Molina did exactly what TLR was afraid he'd do two innings prior.

In the 7th of today's game;
Down 2 runs w/Holliday up, a steal attempt with Jay. WTF?