Former Cardinals Watch

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

OK, so I guess your answer is that I should not have. I will not mention WAR in the future. Actually the other reason that I don't really trust it is that people can't agree on how to calculate it--BBRef came up with 1.5 for Jay and 0.5 for Rasmus.

Use it or not, I don't care. It's a lot of data to crunch and a lot goes into it. I certainly wouldn't say it's without mistakes. I was just trying to understand.

[cpebbles]

My point is, and always is if you pay attention, that Mo is constantly criticized for making dumb moves. (Side note here--a lot of GM's are criticized for making dumb moves, but when we think they might like Colby Rasmus I guess they are now smart.) Meanwhile he's built one of the best MLB teams and organizations in the league, but it keeps getting chalked up to a blind squirrel finding dozens of acorns.

Bull [expletive]. There may be a holdout somewhere on this forum that still argues that Mozeliak just got lucky. What I'm arguing is that this one move was a bad trade, and I'm only even bothering to make that argument because 1) once again we have someone prematurely proclaiming a trade was won, and 2) the arguments against are so consistently illogical that I refuse to not point that out.

I was and am fine with trading Rasmus. I was and am fine with Jon Jay as an everyday center fielder. I am not and will never be in favor of glossing over how little we got in return, blowing those players' contributions to the stretch run and the postseason effort massively out of proportion, or accepting that every subsequent event within the universe hinged on whether or not Rasmus was a Cardinal at the end of 2011.

[Jmodene]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/05/p ... um=twitter

Kip Wells and Anthony Reyes both sign minor league contracts w/ the Padres.

Anthony Reyes is alive!

Reyes and Wells with the Padres. Does this mean the end of the Jeff Suppan era in SoCal?

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

and this thread will be locked in 5, 4, 3,

[cpebbles]

It would be pretty ridiculous to lock a thread over "bull [expletive]."

[Vidor]

Anthony Reyes retiring 17 batters in a row in a World Series game might be the weirdest thing I've ever seen watching Cardinal baseball.

[Jmodene]

Anthony Reyes retiring 17 batters in a row in a World Series game might be the weirdest thing I've ever seen watching Cardinal baseball.

Weird, no. Unexpected, yes. Weird was earlier that season, when he threw a 1-hitter at the White Sox and lost, 1-0.

[vinsanity]

And if Rasmus was as enticing as many GM comments suggest, why didn't they jump in with a better offer to land this blue chip talent? It's one think to talk about what you would do in a trade. It's another thing to actually do it.

Some teams kick the tires on players some don't. There's two conceivable scenarios, one being the GM's in question had CF locked down - Pitt, Philly, Washington, Boston, NY, Texas, Arizona and Detroit come to mind. The other being a GM who would have liked a CF thought that STL wasn't moving him (Mo's words) or the price would be much higher than a rental and two lefty relievers.

I saw someone discussing the 1% or .1% playoff chances of the Cardinals, but lest we forget that the Cardinals were up a .5 game on the day of the trade. Sure maybe the team as constructed on July 27th wasn't going to win the World Series, but it doesn't mean the only singular possible way it improves is by selling low on that kind of potential. The Jays didn't pay much for Jackson to begin with, basically what looks like Miller+Cleto at first glance. Dotel+Rep shouldn't cost a ML starting position player.

I'd also be careful writing him off completely, Alex Gordon was written off as a bust by more than a few till he tore it up last year and has gotten off to a pretty decent start again now. Maybe Rasmus is a bust and maybe the GM knew it. Maybe there weren't other offers and maybe there were. Maybe he was shopped and no one bit or maybe Toronto and the White Sox were the only teams he called. We really don't know so we can only grade it how we see it. Some think it was an oversight by a GM who had a mild history of them others think Rasmus had no value and they got some valuable pieces in return. At the end of the day, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who's going to change their mind about it.

[Jmodene]

I still think the Rasmus deal was more about getting rid of the guy (and his father) more than it was any sort of talent-for-talent kind of deal. That may not be "good baseball" but I think it was absolutely necessary.

[ilstu24]

Anthony Reyes retiring 17 batters in a row in a World Series game might be the weirdest thing I've ever seen watching Cardinal baseball.

Weird, no. Unexpected, yes. Weird was earlier that season, when he threw a 1-hitter at the White Sox and lost, 1-0.

I was at that game. Jim Thome hit the homer. I was also at the following game. Edmonds got concussed and Marquis gave up a gazillion runs.