Scott Rolen for Troy Glaus (Update: Finalized!)

[Secret Weapon]

Do you really think there will be "competition" in camp amongst the infield spots? I highly doubt they'd cut Miles and his 1.5 million salary even if Ryan or someone else has a spring training. Before the Miles signing there was one open spot for 3 or 4 players to have a shot at it. Now, I don't see any available spots, thus no real "competition."

[greenback44]

Let's have some competition for jobs in spring training and see what happens. Maybe that's why there are a lot of extra middle infielders: Don't just "give" the job to Ryan; make him learn baseball and earn it. He'll be better and the Cards will be better. And DeJesus or others can be cut loose without financial disaster. Or. . .maybe the middle infield glut and to some degree our "extra" pitching (Reyes, Thompson, etc.) could be part of a trade for another starting pitcher. I just think competition in spring training can't hurt on a "rebuilding" team.

Decisions based on spring training can hurt a team though. Brendan Ryan's been in the Cardinals organization for five years. Skip Schumaker's been in the Cardinals organization for seven years. Aaron Miles has been getting a major league paycheck for four-plus years. Cesar Izturis has been a major leaguer for almost seven years. There's not much new the Cardinals can learn about these guys in the space of one month against uneven competition, and much of what they do discover is liable to be wrong.

[jim]

I just found out about this trade via a PM from planet a couple of minutes ago. I'm going to give my opinion then read through the 27 pages and see if it changes.

Given Rolen's shoulder, I think we got basically the same player (little less on defense but more on offense) with a similiar contract with one less year on it. So slight advantage Cardinals.

[Richie Allen]

Couple points to address a number of different posts, therefore, no "quote."

1. I've continually heard people say we're getting younger by getting Glaus in exchange for Rolen. Keep in mind there's only a 16 month difference in age between the two. In other words we go from fielding a 32 year old third baseman last year, to one that will turn 32 midway through this season. Younger, yes, but hardly worth mentioning.

2. I've assumed that the "get younger while still competing" philosophy would include not committing to veterans over the next few years that aren't a part of the, we'll call it, future plan. In other words, don't immediately look to fill Eckstein's, Rolen's or Edmonds' spots with 3-4 year deals for veterans. If we felt like there were guys in our system that were going to be ready this spring, I doubt we would have seen signings like Cesar, Miles, etc...but I don't think we have that luxury. I don't even think they're sure about Rasmus starting the season in St. Louis. I'm not crazy about getting younger just for the sake of being younger, which is how I'd feel about most of our minor leaguers mentioned.

3. I was probably as impressed as anyone by Ryan's performance last year but I have to say I'm somewhat surprised by how many folks on here seem (at least almost) ready to hand a starting job to him. Now please don't conclude that I'm arguing on behalf of Miles being a starter, because I'm not, but I'd like to think there's going to be a better solution than either of these guys in the next year or two. "So why sign Miles?" Because "replacement level" isn't handed out like a "ghost bowler" in a bowling league. We don't just get replacement level numbers for league minimum automatically. And perhaps they (whoever that is, exactly) don't feel that they'd necessarily get replacement level numbers at league minimum out of anyone this year. Just over a million dollars for a single player hardly seems worth discussing, therefore I feel a little silly as well.

[greenback44]

I guess I just don't get it. Competing for jobs in spring training is a worse idea than just handing jobs to people who have never established themselves as stars at the AAA level?

Do you really think the Cardinals will learn anything new about Brendan Ryan or Aaron MIles in 100 at-bats in Florida, half of them against minor leaguers and fringe major leaguers?

Well heck, let's just start the whole Springfield club from last year and ship everyone else out. After all, the Redbirds won their division.

OK, this probably isn't worth the bother.

[tenniseleven]

I'm mostly just a fan of Ryan b/c I like the way he plays the game and I like what I saw out of Ryan at 3B and SS (not so much 2B, where his footwork needs a lot of help)...

if I have to watch Miles play SS much this season I may just shoot myself...the guy is decent at 2B and wont hurt a team too much at 3B even though he doesn't have the arm for the position, but his play at SS is just ugly and I can't believe that a great baseball guy like TLR would throw him out there instead of a guy like Ryan, who can actually play the position at an above average, slightly flashy level...

also, Ryan didn't exactly come out of nowhere...
he was the 12th ranked prospect (I think) by BA coming into the 2007 season (and the best defensive infielder I believe)...
he is a Southern California product (which I'm a big fan of, as a lot of these guys know how to play the game at a high level--Barton and Haren come to mind) and excelled in HS..
he was drafted in the 7th round, which is pretty good for a guy coming out of a small school in Idaho...

he's hit:
.311/.363 in short-season
.320/.356 in A-ball
.303/.355 in A+ in a tough league
.273/.343 in AA

the only time he's really struggled to put up a decent avg/obp combination was last year in AAA where he batted .272/.328 coming off an injury-riddled 2006 season..

the power isn't there, but right now I'll take a .270/.330 avg out of a guy who has plus skills as a defender at SS...
he'd basically be a good defensive version of Miles at the bottom of his talent level, and a .300/.350/.400 hitter at the top of his skill set...
I think he has Jack Wilson type talent on the high end, which has more value than some think...

obviously he's not the type of player you hand the job to, but he's also not a AAAA guy who should spend too much time in AAA while guys like Izturis and Miles soak up at-bats in STL...

if Kennedy, Miles, Izturis and Spezio are on the team then Ryan probably will not be...
and it's hard for me to see any of those guys being let go by the Cards, so chances are Ryan won't be in STL...


the best comparison I can think of for Ryan is Jason Bartlett...they are nearly identical type players and Ryan actually compares favorably if you look at the numbers throughout their professional histories...

Bartlett last year batted .265/.339/.361 while playing above average defense at SS and he was a 3-4 win player...

if Ryan matches that I'd be completely happy...

it's just too bad that even if he does have a strong spring he won't make the team unless something happens to Miles, Kennedy, Glaus, Spiezio or Izturis...

[haltz]

he was drafted in the 7th round, which is pretty good for a guy coming out of a small school in Idaho...

To be fair, Lewis & Clark is the same NAIA factory that produced Beau Mills last year. They've sent someone that high at least every other year for the last decade. Definitely not a knock against Ryan, as that school is known for baseball (if anyone viewed it that way -- I'm sure you know this anyway).

[UK]

I'll weigh in, I won't get into what the philisophical directions of this trade means to the team, but...

I give the Cards a slight advantage at this point just b/c of the unknown of the shoulder injury and the fact, Rolen/Larussa would likely be a distraction the remainder of their tenure.

Rolen is 32 with a lot of wear and tear, some of those injuries are structual, you seen how he swung the bat in pain on every check swing.

Glaus will benefit coming to the NL central and facing the various mediocre LH'ers it has to offer. He'll never be Rolen defensively and that foot injury is concerning as well, which didn't impact his play as much as Rolen's injury.

The Cards need bats, Glaus is more of a lock at this point to produce (4th vs. LH'ers and 5th vs. RH'ers).

[UK]

Do you really think the Cardinals will learn anything new about Brendan Ryan or Aaron MIles in 100 at-bats in Florida, half of them against minor leaguers and fringe major leaguers?

Not as much as they will the month and a half of constant supervision both in the cages, vs. live pitching, and during infield to see if the players have worked hard during the offseason, maybe bulked up, or came into ST healthy.

Most of what needs to be accomplished during ST happens away from ST games.

[Maclowery]

Anyone know any solid Bluejays forums? I'm curious to see how they are reacting to this news.

I personally support it; I never got excited when Rolen was coming to bat last year. I wonder if he'll try to catch up to a high fastball and pop it up again? Wow! he did!

With Rolen's petulance (not to say that LaRussa isn't partially at fault too), the whole Dugout Drama thing was tiresome. I expected a move between now and midseason. Glaus has more talent than what I figured we'd get for it, so I am pretty content. We'll all see in a couple months though!