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heyzeus wrote:Unemployment finally drops below 9% for first time in 3 years

This was not a particularly positive report. The pace of job creation remains anemic, and, as has been true for several years now, decreases in the unemployment rate are being driven by people dropping out of the labor force.

Not looking for investment advice, nor am I giving it here, ...but just pointing out that I have basically no appreciation-growth in our tax-deferred retirement accounts since 2003 (using basic recommended diversification for someon of our age). The growth has come from contributions.

So yeah, company match etc, still a great deal. But, except for company match (free money), we would have been better off not deferring and using that money to keep all debts paid down (even the low rate mortgage) -assuming we were retiring now or soon-which we are not.

Anyway, I guess my point is, the old planning models for investing and retiring are obsolete. Plugging in an estimated return of 5% for 30 years is not a realistic scenario anymore (and I remember when they were plugging in a lot higher rate than 5% as an avg rate of return). Compound this by a probability that future income tax rates will be higher than current rates.

It may be quite possible that 401K retirement contributions etc (non-matched of course) are not advisable for many people -assuming they use that money to keep debts down. A situation that was formerly rare.

Freed Roger wrote:Not looking for investment advice, nor am I giving it here, ...but just pointing out that I have basically no appreciation-growth in our tax-deferred retirement accounts since 2003 (using basic recommended diversification for someon of our age). The growth has come from contributions.

One thing I look back and thank God for is the 4 times I was laid off or left a company and transferred my 401(k) money into a self directed IRA. Over the years, that has meant 90% of my retirement funds were in my control in the stock market instead of paying management fees to a limited set of mutual fund managers getting returns like you speak of.

Since 2007 that has allowed me to beat the market handily with my portfolio's emphasis on dividends, commodities, precious metals, and oil. I mean handily. I haven't seen a year under 10% and a few 20-30% gains. Edit to say 2008 saw a decline but not as much as the broader market during the meltdown that year.

FWIW, I just got completely out of PM's except for a token investment so I can keep an eye on them. Moved the funds to consumer cyclicals and some high dividend companies like T and LEG. I think the worst is behind the economy.

Now that I've said that, I am sure 2012 will see my account decimated.

Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
Now that I've said that, I am sure 2012 will see my account decimated.

It's the 2030 account I am starting to wonder about.

/[expletive] it. who am I kidding - I am don't think that far ahead for my personal [expletive].

Freed Roger wrote:

Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
Now that I've said that, I am sure 2012 will see my account decimated.

It's the 2030 account I am starting to wonder about.

/[expletive] it. who am I kidding - I am don't think that far ahead for my personal [expletive].

Hard to do that I know. Biggest mistake was shying away from the market after the Black Monday crash of 1987. I was 28 and had money to save but I didn't put it in the market for many years. I remember a friend saying the day after that 20% drop he was going all in. He's retired now. I'm still working.

Not really tied to our financial system, but here is an interesting article on Forbes about why Best Buy is headed for business purgatory. I don't really shop there, but this article makes it sound like they are their own worst enemy.

I think it raises broader questions about the "big box" strategy that came to dominate retailing in so many sectors, and how these asset-intensive businesses are now struggling with changing consumer patterns.

just a depressing article, this seemed like the best spot

Harder for Americans to Rise From Lower Rungs
By JASON DePARLE
Published: January 4, 2012

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/us/ha ... .html?_r=1

Jocephus wrote:just a depressing article, this seemed like the best spot

Harder for Americans to Rise From Lower Rungs
By JASON DePARLE
Published: January 4, 2012

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/us/ha ... .html?_r=1

What's depressing? That those who don't deserve to get ahead are finding it harder to have everything handed to them?