Scott Rolen for Troy Glaus (Update: Finalized!)

[Richie Allen]

I'm not sure if I've chimed in yet, and I'm usually a spectator for these epic threads.

At this point, I will pretty much agree with (I think) Haltz, who suggested that La Russa is coordinating the moves. And this goes back to the question I asked a couple of weeks ago: why was it so important to have TLR back? Does he have incriminating pictures of De Witt?

TLR is sabotaging this franchise by doing things his way. His way includes bringing in marginal players, showing unwavering loyalty to his pets and reducing the team to rubble. Whatever happened to the TLR who couldn't fit in St. Louis because of his boldness and love of American League softball? He always had an Aaron Miles (Mike Gallego) with him, but he seems to be overvaluing players who can't even make it on some teams while his boldest moves are the ones that enables crappy players to play.

Can't really argue with the way Tony has always done it, considering his record. Unless people feel he could have had even better teams if someone else would have been making the player personnel decisions.

I'll go on record as saying I'd rather having someone that is familiar with the actual player, knowing their tendencies and their personality, than someone that is solely basing the decision on numbers.

[haltz]

I don't know if it's completely unrealistic to think that Izturis, at age 28, could possibly put up a season close to his career best

Sure he could, but we have a 3,000 plate appearances that say he's likely to do worse. That's not the way smart decisions are made.

[UK]

He's getting old and regressing.

He's currently 27. Isn't that supposed to be the peak years of ML players? Did he lie about his age too?

Not when you have degenerative conditions in your elbow and been on the DL 4 or more times with Hamstring injuries as well as a back injury.

[haltz]

I'll go on record as saying I'd rather having someone that is familiar with the actual player, knowing their tendencies and their personality, than someone that is solely basing the decision on numbers.

Maybe we'll see something like this:

Code: Select all

Year   League    Team     Age   G     W    L     WP   Finish

1993 AL West     Oakland   48   162   68   94   .420      7
 1994 AL West     Oakland   49   114   51   63   .447      2
 1995 AL West     Oakland   50   144   67   77   .465      4

[Richie Allen]

I don't know if it's completely unrealistic to think that Izturis, at age 28, could possibly put up a season close to his career best

Sure he could, but we have a 3,000 plate appearances that say he's likely to do worse. That's not the way smart decisions are made.

2000, as the 670 from that year don't suggest that.

[Richie Allen]

I'll go on record as saying I'd rather having someone that is familiar with the actual player, knowing their tendencies and their personality, than someone that is solely basing the decision on numbers.

Maybe we'll see something like this:

Code: Select all

Year   League    Team     Age   G     W    L     WP   Finish

1993 AL West     Oakland   48   162   68   94   .420      7
 1994 AL West     Oakland   49   114   51   63   .447      2
 1995 AL West     Oakland   50   144   67   77   .465      4

Maybe we should hire one of those managers, or GMs, that never have a losing record.

[haltz]

I don't know if it's completely unrealistic to think that Izturis, at age 28, could possibly put up a season close to his career best

Sure he could, but we have a 3,000 plate appearances that say he's likely to do worse. That's not the way smart decisions are made.

2000, as the 670 from that year don't suggest that.

I'm including all that data. That's the fair way to do it, right?

[GatewaySnayke]

I'll go on record as saying I'd rather having someone that is familiar with the actual player, knowing their tendencies and their personality, than someone that is solely basing the decision on numbers.

Maybe we'll see something like this:

Code: Select all

Year   League    Team     Age   G     W    L     WP   Finish

1993 AL West     Oakland   48   162   68   94   .420      7
 1994 AL West     Oakland   49   114   51   63   .447      2
 1995 AL West     Oakland   50   144   67   77   .465      4

I was going to reply, but that one was so much better.

But hey, if TLR feels that he can get more out of his teams by knowing their social graces and how they'll react in something like child labor instead of what the numbers actually say, I don't know...

[jim]

Isn't Glaus' "injury" the same as Pujols' I would be a lot more comfortable with Pujols recovering from Plantar Facitus surgery rather than Rolen's 4 yr shoulder recovery plan.

From what I know, it is...but that doesn't mean it is to the same degree of severity. We know it's a very painful condition that is very hard to get rid of, and Glaus only played in 115 games last year. How confident can you really be that Glaus will put up 130+ in 2008? It can't be that much more confident than you would have in Rolen putting up the same number.

Did Glauss have surgery for plantar fasciitis? Success rate for that surgery is not so hot. If this is true then this isn't such good news.

He went on the DL for that but came back, he surgery on a nerve in his foot, IIRC.

So no surgery for the plantar fasciitis? Cuz that ain't good if he did.

I realize that we are all playing armchair medical person here with Rolen, but one fact I know is that language used in the medical profession is so out of touch with reality that things like "He's ready to play", "the joint is healed", and a pile of poop all mean about the same thing. I'm sorry to the medical people on this board, but I've had enough (bad) experiences to undertstand that the responses and communication are basically robotic in nature. It's a big if-then-else statement that produces some answer, and I've learned to basically filter all of that noise out.

So my opinion on the trade stems completely from my understanding of the injury, my undrestanding of what it means when a doctor says the joint is "stable" and "solid" and blah blah blah... and what I saw on the field the last two years.

Rolen is toast - at least the Rolen pre-shoulder injury is concerned. He's been one of my favorite players, but a Glaus for Rolen trade is probably favorable for the Cardinals.

I hope I'm wrong about the toast thing. I really hope Scottie puts up huge numbers in Toronto, I hope they win the WS, and I hope Rolen gets the series MVP that he deserved in '05.

But I really don't think it's going to happen.

[Richie Allen]

I don't know if it's completely unrealistic to think that Izturis, at age 28, could possibly put up a season close to his career best

Sure he could, but we have a 3,000 plate appearances that say he's likely to do worse. That's not the way smart decisions are made.

2000, as the 670 from that year don't suggest that.

I'm including all that data. That's the fair way to do it, right?

Over a quarter of his ABs came from the season I referenced. Those 670 ABs do suggest he could put up those numbers. The remaining 2000 do not.