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Transmogrified Tiger wrote:

lazypenguin wrote:

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:

lazypenguin wrote:I think you're forgetting that most of his focus is on catching and calling the game.

I'll take a .290/.350/.380 on top of how well he does that, any day of the week. Even the .260/.300/.350 that you put out there. Even though he is improving from that, as he has proven. It's just just a hot "streak", it's been nearly a whole month now.

You're setting a pretty low standard. Last year, 28 catchers got at least 300 PA's. The only ones not to make a .650 OPS were Molina, Ausmus, and Schneider(.649). No matter the position, if you have a hitter that poor playing everyday, then it puts more strain on the rest of the lineup to produce, and you need to be better throughout the lineup to atone for it.

We're focusing on this year and the rise in Molina's stats. .722 OPS by the way.

A .722 would be 20th out of 28, still very bad for what amounts to a peak in his production.

According to this link, Yadi would be 9th in the league. I guess he is a few AB's under being considered "qualified" for that ESPN page, but even if you look at the "non-qualified" part, he would be 14th for anyone over 100 AB's.

He's hitting like Michael Barrett right now, it disgusts me.

In all seriousness, as long as Molina is hitting above replacement level (4.1 VORP at the moment - good for sixth among NL catchers) and he's cheap, I'll enjoy his defense. He's an asset right now, as opposed to last year when he was hurting the team despite his defense.

That said, I thought it was a good breakdown and look into how he's arrived at his numbers this year by Snayke, and wouldn't really disagree with any of it.

For the sake of the argument...

What is the argument?

haltz wrote:He's hitting like Michael Barrett right now, it disgusts me.

In all seriousness, as long as Molina is hitting above replacement level (4.1 VORP at the moment - good for sixth among NL catchers) and he's cheap, I'll enjoy his defense. He's an asset right now, as opposed to last year when he was hurting the team despite his defense.

That said, I thought it was a good breakdown and look into how he's arrived at his numbers this year by Snayke, and wouldn't really disagree with any of it.

For the sake of the argument...

What is the argument?

The title of the thread? Bashing Molina for some reason? My evidence was anti the argument.

Hey, Yadi is doing pretty well right now. Thank goodness. Not only did he badly need a bit of a turnaround, but I think we'd all agree that "doing pretty well right now" is a rare quality among 2007 Cardinals.

But saying it is "not just a hot streak" because it is "nearly a month now," or that he is "obviously improving," is a bit of a leap. He went pretty much all of 2006 in a cold streak, and very, very few people believed that he was as bad as those numbers, so I wouldn't go off too far the opposite way. If his "true level of talent" is someplace around a 650 OPS -- as I've maintained since 2004 -- then he is pretty much exactly as far above it right now, as he was below it for 2006. Maybe he stays about that level all season, or maybe he starts performing at about that 650 level soon -- which incidentally was right around where he was before the past week of exceptionally good performance.

Hitters who do not walk much and who do not hit for power are subject to extreme variation in performance. That's to be expected, because how well they do is based on how many of those batted balls find spaces. Last year few of them did, so he was miserable. Right now more of them are, so he's doing a bit better. I think it is fair to say that the current up-tick is mostly random variation in performance -- doing pretty much the same thing, but happening to get better results.

Look at it this way -- based on probability and statistics, we would expect that a hitter whose true talent was a 650 OPS, would normally perform someplace between a 560 OPS and a 740 OPS in 108 AB (which is what Yadi has so far in 07), based on nothing but luck and random variations in performance, "how the ball bounces" for a hitter whose ability is 650. Yadi is still right within that expected range for this number of AB. Just like last year, he was right inside the range (but on the other end of it).

Meantime, I'll repeat my oft-stated position that Yadi's defense is worth about two wins per year. Not a huge amount that really changes the balance of his offensive contributions all that much.

lazypenguin wrote:

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:

lazypenguin wrote:

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:

lazypenguin wrote:I think you're forgetting that most of his focus is on catching and calling the game.

I'll take a .290/.350/.380 on top of how well he does that, any day of the week. Even the .260/.300/.350 that you put out there. Even though he is improving from that, as he has proven. It's just just a hot "streak", it's been nearly a whole month now.

You're setting a pretty low standard. Last year, 28 catchers got at least 300 PA's. The only ones not to make a .650 OPS were Molina, Ausmus, and Schneider(.649). No matter the position, if you have a hitter that poor playing everyday, then it puts more strain on the rest of the lineup to produce, and you need to be better throughout the lineup to atone for it.

We're focusing on this year and the rise in Molina's stats. .722 OPS by the way.

A .722 would be 20th out of 28, still very bad for what amounts to a peak in his production.

According to this link, Yadi would be 9th in the league. I guess he is a few AB's under being considered "qualified" for that ESPN page, but even if you look at the "non-qualified" part, he would be 14th for anyone over 100 AB's.

There's a reason why I compared it to 2006. Talking about how well a player has done in a quarter of a season is fine, but ranking them is pretty useless. Comparing to 2006 gives a much better baseline for comparison.

lazypenguin wrote:The title of the thread? Bashing Molina for some reason? My evidence was anti the argument.

Who's bashing? We can't look at the numbers because he happens to be doing better than his abysmal 2006?

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:

lazypenguin wrote:

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:

lazypenguin wrote:

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:

lazypenguin wrote:I think you're forgetting that most of his focus is on catching and calling the game.

I'll take a .290/.350/.380 on top of how well he does that, any day of the week. Even the .260/.300/.350 that you put out there. Even though he is improving from that, as he has proven. It's just just a hot "streak", it's been nearly a whole month now.

You're setting a pretty low standard. Last year, 28 catchers got at least 300 PA's. The only ones not to make a .650 OPS were Molina, Ausmus, and Schneider(.649). No matter the position, if you have a hitter that poor playing everyday, then it puts more strain on the rest of the lineup to produce, and you need to be better throughout the lineup to atone for it.

We're focusing on this year and the rise in Molina's stats. .722 OPS by the way.

A .722 would be 20th out of 28, still very bad for what amounts to a peak in his production.

According to this link, Yadi would be 9th in the league. I guess he is a few AB's under being considered "qualified" for that ESPN page, but even if you look at the "non-qualified" part, he would be 14th for anyone over 100 AB's.

There's a reason why I compared it to 2006. Talking about how well a player has done in a quarter of a season is fine, but ranking them is pretty useless. Comparing to 2006 gives a much better baseline for comparison.

Well the whole point is Yadi is obviously improving and people are still finding ways to bash him.

haltz wrote:

lazypenguin wrote:The title of the thread? Bashing Molina for some reason? My evidence was anti the argument.

Who's bashing? We can't look at the numbers because he happens to be doing better than his abysmal 2006?

What?

And again..

People are obviously ignoring me (for what reasons I have no idea)..

Was Yadi EVER expected to hit? I don't think he was.....in this terrific string of success since 2000, we haven't had a regular catcher hit over .260, and we have 1 title, 2 pennants, and 6 division titles in a 7 year span..

No one was dogging on Matheny's inability to hit the baseball when he was here because we had players who could hit...now...because those players who can hit suck we are attacking our catcher..

Don't attack the catcher, attack the system and the strategy

Balltilyafall4 wrote:And again..

People are obviously ignoring me (for what reasons I have no idea)..

Was Yadi EVER expected to hit? I don't think he was.....in this terrific string of success since 2000, we haven't had a regular catcher hit over .260, and we have 1 title, 2 pennants, and 6 division titles in a 7 year span..

No one was dogging on Matheny's inability to hit the baseball when he was here because we had players who could hit...now...because those players who can hit suck we are attacking our catcher..

Don't attack the catcher, attack the system and the strategy

Agree with you here.

Yadi is mainly here for his defense and calling the game. It is only a plus that his AVG, OBS, SLG, and OPS are higher than anyone outside of Pujols, Spiezio and Duncan....

Come on!