Coronavirus

[Arthur Dent]

I mean, it’s extremely bad and remains so, but not because of the risk to healthy vaccinated people or children. The children thing in particular really makes me angry, as there is clearly an attempt to use people’s deepest fears for manipulation. I don’t know how many “pediatric hospitalizations are exploding” headlines I’ve read that don’t hold up to any look at at risk context. It’s extremely gross.

The constant testing and freak outs in classrooms is not accomplishing anything. Get vaxxed and relax.

Not sure what you mean by the hospitals thing. Do you mean the hospitals are over-admitting?

I can tell you in my kids high school there’s plenty of disagreement between parents on this, so this isn’t all coming from the top or from the media. Maybe the parents are influenced by media, which I’m sure is true, but the schools are getting it from all sides. Some of this is extended from pre or early vaccine times when I’d say most parents were in agreement on remote learning being the way to go.

Based on the vaccinated children should wear n95 masks type articles, out of 1,000 unvaccinated kids who get a COVID infection, how many would you say will need hospital treatment? How many will need an ICU bed?

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

I know, cases aren’t deaths and hospitalizations. But how is this remotely over? When is the last time hundreds of thousands of people in the country got simultaneously infected with something that isn’t a cold?

There will always be peaks and valleys in cases/hosps/deaths. Ignoring that this is a the cumulation of two peaks (seasonal and omicron) cresting at the same time to pretend we're in terrible shape is almost disingenuous.

Sure, hospitals are stretched thin. And, if they don't expand capacity, they will continue to be stretched thin well into the future. Doesn't mean everyone faces much of an increased risk, there are large swaths of the population, namely the young and/or vaxxed, that face minimal risk. Yet, here we are, acting like its Armageddon again.

See, to me that’s disingenuous. Nobody’s acting like it’s Armageddon. I mean maybe someone is. What many people are doing is recognizing a strain on resources and taking steps to minimize it. That’s not panicking. It’s just recognizing the reality of what’s going on around you and trying to do something. The seasonal stuff is going to happen but some of the Covid mitigation measures address that as well. Masks included. So if your schools or hospitals are having problems like they’re having, it’s not crazy to implement some of those measures.

Pretty much every public health resource is recommending some of these measures. Not to mention immunologists, virologists, and epidemiologists. You can say the experts are failing here but people are just following advice to varying extents. They’re not out of their minds.

I see your point and it did come off wrong. Mea culpa. I’ll have a more substantive post later more on point.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

I think that's happening on both sides, though, especially in regards to schools reopening/staying open. It starts out with a reasonable enough position of "we have to do cost-benefit analysis of COVID mitigation"... except they're starting from the position that the cost of school closures is infinity.

Lol very true.

Though the other side may be starting with a negative cost or in reality deeply underestimating the cost.

[ghostrunner]

I mean, it’s extremely bad and remains so, but not because of the risk to healthy vaccinated people or children. The children thing in particular really makes me angry, as there is clearly an attempt to use people’s deepest fears for manipulation. I don’t know how many “pediatric hospitalizations are exploding” headlines I’ve read that don’t hold up to any look at at risk context. It’s extremely gross.

The constant testing and freak outs in classrooms is not accomplishing anything. Get vaxxed and relax.

Not sure what you mean by the hospitals thing. Do you mean the hospitals are over-admitting?

I can tell you in my kids high school there’s plenty of disagreement between parents on this, so this isn’t all coming from the top or from the media. Maybe the parents are influenced by media, which I’m sure is true, but the schools are getting it from all sides. Some of this is extended from pre or early vaccine times when I’d say most parents were in agreement on remote learning being the way to go.

Based on the vaccinated children should wear n95 masks type articles, out of 1,000 unvaccinated kids who get a COVID infection, how many would you say will need hospital treatment? How many will need an ICU bed?

No idea, but isn’t some of the point in telling people that hospitals are near capacity to try and encourage people not to add to it? If you’re down to 10% you don’t have a lot of room left so any added cases are important for the duration of that high occupancy period.

It’s just hard for me to justify carrying on 100% normally in those specific circumstances. Keeping in mind that if you’re vaxxed or a child you could still pass it on to someone who’s more vulnerable? Never mind the fact that my state is only 50% vaxxed.

I’ll say it would be nice to know what contingency plans are for 100% situations. Is it a staff issue too or just a space issue that can easily be resolved with taking over buildings, tents, etc.

[Arthur Dent]

The answer is ~0.7 and ~0.2, constituting a small fraction of the reasons kids will need to be hospitalized.

Hospital capacity is a problem that this does nothing to solve and should be solved by increasing hospital capacity, not by expecting people to give up normal life.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

And hospital capacity is a staff issue more than a space issue. I've yet to see people in tents in a parking lot (though there are plans for that if necessary).

With the exception of the Emergency Department. ERs are in fact limited in space and that space can get cramped. But hospitals have ample negative pressure rooms equipped to treat patients, they don't have the staff, which is exhaustive. When things get bad, they pay more for travel staff which is considerably more expensive. And then start paying bonuses to staff they have. And then start paying bonuses to outside people.

[ghostrunner]

The answer is ~0.7 and ~0.2, constituting a small fraction of the reasons kids will need to be hospitalized.

Hospital capacity is a problem that this does nothing to solve and should be solved by increasing hospital capacity, not by expecting people to give up normal life.

Sounds right but is hospital capacity being increased? Or is it prepared to increase? Is there staff to cover widespread increases if it gets worse? That’d be good to know. Not too hopeful about my state being prepared for it. This is what our biggest health provider is tweeting out. It’s on you, basically.

[Superorganism]

Why is the weak variant hospitalizing so many people? Or it’s just everywhere and people are showing up testing positive while there for something else?

[haltz]

Why is the weak variant hospitalizing so many people? Or it’s just everywhere and people are showing up testing positive while there for something else?

Nearly half of COVID-infected hospital patients in New York were originally admitted for other health reasons and only learned they were positive through routine testing, Governor Kathy Hochul announced Friday.

According to newly released data, 42 percent of current coronavirus patients in the state entered the hospital for other issues, such as injuries or heart attacks, and later learned they were infected with the virus. Of those, 37 percent of patients did not show symptoms of the virus before testing positive.

The data marks the first time New York hospitals have specified which "COVID patients" sought care for COVID and which simply found out they are positive after they arrived. Hochul ordered hospitals to compile the information on Monday in order to clarify how the Omicron variant is affecting the latest surge in admissions.

https://www.newsweek.com/42-new-yorks-h ... ns-1667220

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

I know, cases aren’t deaths and hospitalizations. But how is this remotely over? When is the last time hundreds of thousands of people in the country got simultaneously infected with something that isn’t a cold?

There will always be peaks and valleys in cases/hosps/deaths. Ignoring that this is a the cumulation of two peaks (seasonal and omicron) cresting at the same time to pretend we're in terrible shape is almost disingenuous.

Sure, hospitals are stretched thin. And, if they don't expand capacity, they will continue to be stretched thin well into the future. Doesn't mean everyone faces much of an increased risk, there are large swaths of the population, namely the young and/or vaxxed, that face minimal risk. Yet, here we are, acting like its Armageddon again.

See, to me that’s disingenuous. Nobody’s acting like it’s Armageddon. I mean maybe someone is. What many people are doing is recognizing a strain on resources and taking steps to minimize it. That’s not panicking. It’s just recognizing the reality of what’s going on around you and trying to do something. The seasonal stuff is going to happen but some of the Covid mitigation measures address that as well. Masks included. So if your schools or hospitals are having problems like they’re having, it’s not crazy to implement some of those measures.

Pretty much every public health resource is recommending some of these measures. Not to mention immunologists, virologists, and epidemiologists. You can say the experts are failing here but people are just following advice to varying extents. They’re not out of their minds.

Should have pointed out I wasn't talking about you saying it is Armageddon. But, there are quite a few people.

Just googled 'Omicron CNN' because CNN is one of the worst if not the absolute worst at using fear mongering.

Here are the top 5 headlines I get:
1. Latest on coronovarius and omicron variant: Live Updates
2. Child hospitalization rates hit record highs
3. 'mild' covid doesn't always feel that way
4. if you caught covid over the holidays heres what you need to know
5. Omicron surge is 'unlike anything we've ever seen' expert says

3 of those are just downright clickbait, no? Worried about kids, don't I looked at their stats:

Covid-19 hospitalization rates among children are soaring in the United States, with an average of 4.3 children under 5 per 100,000 hospitalized with an infection as of the week ending January 1, up from 2.6 children the previous week, according to data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

This represents a 48% increase from the week ending December 4, and the largest increase in hospitalization rate this age group has seen over the course of the pandemic.

It's unbelievable no one calls them on this complete and utter [expletive]. 4.3 kids per 100K? Okay, chicken little network.

They did the same thing with the multi inflammatory syndrome back in like may of 2020 as well.

Anyway I'm off on a tangent, point being people are treating this like it's the worst thing thats happened since ever. You can get on twitter.com, the mecca of humanity, and see how angry people are that mask mandates aren't in place, vaccine mandates aren't in place, people aren't being locked down. My favorite place is the governor of Arkansas' mentions when he posts the numbers. Here's a few snippets.

Event the above tweet references

Oh the humanity a boosted old man with a bunch of kids that couldn't get sick if they tried

Also, lol at this person's rights.

I know these are all strawmen arguments. I just get tired of it and will vent here time to time. I've tried replying to some of these people but they're...not worth talking to. They love to repeat CNN headlines though. Which is another way of saying using bold headlines like NEW DAILY RECORD OF CASES gets under my skin as it has a tendency to just add to the fearmongering machine that doesn't need any more gas.

As to your point of how is this effectively over if we're setting new records, I'd again defer to the fact that there are large swaths of the population that are relatively immune at this point to any serious effects from covid.

Hospitals are going to always be stretched thin when surges come in like this. IMO, that's going to happen for a long time. Unless hospitals increase capacity.

So, you have people with close to zero risk from a virus that is going to continue to circulate in perpetuity. You have hospitals that are unwilling to increase capacity to meet demand until demand comes knocking. You've just got to say it. [expletive] it. The hospitals have improperly adapted to the environment. Telling people not to come in unless they're 'really' sick which is a whole other topic, but..[expletive] off hospitals. Hire more people, and pay them more if you're worried about it. Kind of delving into politics here, but whatever. Instead of paying more and hiring more people the hospitals have resorted to shaming the general public for getting sick and needing care. Then hiding behind their overworked workers as a means to garner sympathy for their failure to plan or desire to prioritize profits over care.

If we're waiting on hospitals as the last piece of the puzzle, it may be a while.