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Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin: The Thread

Posted: September 13 08, 3:51 pm
by Socnorb11
BW23 wrote:What Obama stands for, though, is "liberalism", IMO. Now, McCain's not a conservative by any means. And frankly, as I've stated before, I'm not a McCain fan. (In a way it pains me campaigning for him.) I was for the guy that was most conservative and closest to my beliefs in the primaries. But with my core beliefs, I don't see me ever voting for a Democratic president again. And very, very, very unlikely a Dem U.S. Rep. or Senator either. Doubtful for a major state office, too. I guess my beliefs are too strong (or I guess I'm just so far to the right) that I can't go with the candidate that's furthest from that. I could probably go Libertarian, but some of those beliefs are too far out there for my taking, too.

Has the Republican party made me happy lately? Of course not. But the alternative, IMO, is worse. So I'll vote for the lesser of the two evils in hopes that McCain might actually do some things I like.

See, you're still stuck on meaningless (in my opinion) labels, and completely avoiding talking about the candidates' ideas, beliefs, statements, etc. Which of Obama's policies are you opposed to?

Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin: The Thread

Posted: September 13 08, 3:55 pm
by obucard
BW23 wrote:What Obama stands for, though, is "liberalism", IMO. Now, McCain's not a conservative by any means. And frankly, as I've stated before, I'm not a McCain fan. (In a way it pains me campaigning for him.) I was for the guy that was most conservative and closest to my beliefs in the primaries. But with my core beliefs, I don't see me ever voting for a Democratic president again. And very, very, very unlikely a Dem U.S. Rep. or Senator either. Doubtful for a major state office, too. I guess my beliefs are too strong (or I guess I'm just so far to the right) that I can't go with the candidate that's furthest from that. I could probably go Libertarian, but some of those beliefs are too far out there for my taking, too.

Has the Republican party made me happy lately? Of course not. But the alternative, IMO, is worse. So I'll vote for the lesser of the two evils in hopes that McCain might actually do some things I like.

Image

Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin: The Thread

Posted: September 13 08, 7:39 pm
by GatewaySnayke
Alan Greenspan on John McCain's tax cuts:
Greenspan: Country Can't Afford McCain's Tax Cuts

Alan Greenspan says the country can't afford tax cuts of the magnitude proposed by Republican presidential contender John McCain — at least not without a corresponding reduction in government spending.

"Unless we cut spending, no," the former Federal Reserve chairman said Friday when asked McCain's proposed tax cuts, pegged in some estimates at $3.3 trillion.

"I'm not in favor of financing tax cuts with borrowed money," Greenspan said during an interview with Bloomberg Television. "I always have tied tax cuts to spending."

McCain has said that he would offset his proposed cuts — including reducing the corporate tax rate and eliminating the Alternative Minimum Tax that has plagued middle-class families — by ending congressional pork-barrel spending, unnecessary government programs and overhauling entitlement programs such as Medicare and Social Security.

Democrats pounced on Greenspan's comments, in part because McCain professed last year that he was weaker on economics than foreign affairs and was reading Greenspan's memoir, "The Age of Turbulence," to educate himself.

"Obviously he needs to go back to that book and study it some more," Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo., said during a conference call arranged by the campaign of Democratic nominee Barack Obama.
Shocking. A Republican economic plan that would burden the middle class. I wish there was an emoticon that showed "shock." It's hard to believe that anyone would find McCain's plan defensible, but...there is.

Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin: The Thread

Posted: September 13 08, 7:46 pm
by Richie Allen
GatewaySnayke wrote:Shocking. A Republican economic plan that would burden the middle class. I wish there was an emoticon that showed "shock." It's hard to believe that anyone would find McCain's plan defensible, but...there is.
And some people will only hear the part about McCain wanting the biggest tax cut of all time and assume that it's going to be good for their pocketbook, despite almost all of his tax cuts going to the top couple percent. From what I've read, Obama's plan is better for the middle class although McCain and Co. will try to make you think otherwise.

Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin: The Thread

Posted: September 13 08, 8:24 pm
by Radbird
The Secrets of the Great Presidents

From a Doris Kearns Goodwin piece in Parade Magazine. You can vote for the candidates (pres. & vp) in each of her 10 categories. Dismiss it as being a fluff piece in Parade if you wish, but I have enormous respect for Ms. Goodwin as a presidential historian.

Here's her intro:
What makes a great President? As a historian, I look to the past to help predict the future. And I am convinced that Americans should consider the leadership strengths of our most successful Presidents when deciding how to cast their ballots in November. Focusing on the qualities that have made some of our leaders exceptional provides a better perspective on our current candidates than what's so often reported--mistaken words, glib replies, fundraising abilities, and TV ads. Taking Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt as guides, I've identified 10 attributes that distinguish truly great Presidents.

I hope that as this campaign reaches its end, we can all move beyond the superficial "issues" that now play too large a role in Presidential politics. Let us look closely at the leadership styles of John McCain and Barack Obama and analyze their strengths and weaknesses in relation to our greatest leaders. It will take imagination to shift our present mode of thinking. Old habits die hard. But let us begin.

Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin: The Thread

Posted: September 13 08, 8:37 pm
by Richie Allen
Radbird wrote:Here's her intro:
I hope that as this campaign reaches its end, we can all move beyond the superficial "issues" that now play too large a role in Presidential politics. Let us look closely at the leadership styles of John McCain and Barack Obama and analyze their strengths and weaknesses in relation to our greatest leaders. It will take imagination to shift our present mode of thinking. Old habits die hard. But let us begin.
I too have great respect for her and to think that I was made to feel guilty when I stated that I was choosing my President this year based on personality and character, rather than on the issues.

Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin: The Thread

Posted: September 13 08, 10:19 pm
by BW23
Socnorb11 wrote:
BW23 wrote:What Obama stands for, though, is "liberalism", IMO. Now, McCain's not a conservative by any means. And frankly, as I've stated before, I'm not a McCain fan. (In a way it pains me campaigning for him.) I was for the guy that was most conservative and closest to my beliefs in the primaries. But with my core beliefs, I don't see me ever voting for a Democratic president again. And very, very, very unlikely a Dem U.S. Rep. or Senator either. Doubtful for a major state office, too. I guess my beliefs are too strong (or I guess I'm just so far to the right) that I can't go with the candidate that's furthest from that. I could probably go Libertarian, but some of those beliefs are too far out there for my taking, too.

Has the Republican party made me happy lately? Of course not. But the alternative, IMO, is worse. So I'll vote for the lesser of the two evils in hopes that McCain might actually do some things I like.

See, you're still stuck on meaningless (in my opinion) labels, and completely avoiding talking about the candidates' ideas, beliefs, statements, etc. Which of Obama's policies are you opposed to?
Education, welfare, death penalty, abortion, taxes, immigration, gun control, defense. To name a few.

So, really, no. I wasn't stuck on meaningless labels. His beliefs are those of most democrats.

Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin: The Thread

Posted: September 13 08, 10:59 pm
by PujolJunkie
BW23 wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:
BW23 wrote:What Obama stands for, though, is "liberalism", IMO. Now, McCain's not a conservative by any means. And frankly, as I've stated before, I'm not a McCain fan. (In a way it pains me campaigning for him.) I was for the guy that was most conservative and closest to my beliefs in the primaries. But with my core beliefs, I don't see me ever voting for a Democratic president again. And very, very, very unlikely a Dem U.S. Rep. or Senator either. Doubtful for a major state office, too. I guess my beliefs are too strong (or I guess I'm just so far to the right) that I can't go with the candidate that's furthest from that. I could probably go Libertarian, but some of those beliefs are too far out there for my taking, too.

Has the Republican party made me happy lately? Of course not. But the alternative, IMO, is worse. So I'll vote for the lesser of the two evils in hopes that McCain might actually do some things I like.

See, you're still stuck on meaningless (in my opinion) labels, and completely avoiding talking about the candidates' ideas, beliefs, statements, etc. Which of Obama's policies are you opposed to?
Education, welfare, death penalty, abortion, taxes, immigration, gun control, defense. To name a few.

So, really, no. I wasn't stuck on meaningless labels. His beliefs are those of most democrats.
So you're against a fair shot for education for every child. Welfare to those who need it. Giving criminals a second chance (even though Obama's policy says child rapists and the like would still be sentenced to death). Giving tax cuts to the people who need them the very most. Giving illegal immigrants a shot at becoming part of the American way of life and comprehensive immigration reform without amnesty. Respecting the 2nd amendment, but allowing local gun bans and expanding the military.
In a speech to the Chicago Council on Global Affairs in April 2007, Sen. Obama (D-IL) advocated the expansion of the military to include an additional sixty-five thousand army soldiers and twenty-seven thousand marines. He also called for an increase in the number of Arabic speakers in the military.
Sen. McCain (R-AZ), a former navy pilot, has been one of the most outspoken voices in Congress on defense issues. McCain favors an increase in the size of the U.S. military, especially the Army and Marine Corps.
And on immigration? McCain:

Give everyone in the world an opportunity to come to America
No more ballot initiatives against immigration
YES on visas for skilled workers
YES on allowing more foreign workers into the US for farm work
YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security
YES on giving Guest Workers a path to citizenship
YES on establishing a Guest Worker program
YES on comprehensive immigration reform

[expletive] liberal, that McCain.

EDIT:

And yeah, this isn't a dangerous policy at all:

Allow firearms in National Parks
YES on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks
YES on loosening license & background checks at gun shows
NO on background checks at gun shows:

Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin: The Thread

Posted: September 13 08, 11:22 pm
by Hudler
McCain SUPPORTS gun locks being sold with guns and wants stronger laws on gun shows.
I found that out in the first 2 sites I checked in a search,who's telling things that aren't true?

Re: Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin: The Thread

Posted: September 13 08, 11:24 pm
by BW23
I'm against pumping more money into the Dept of Ed.

I'm against most forms of welfare (particularly making those who work hard pay for those who don't). Opportunities are there for almost anyone that wants it.

Giving criminals a second chance? We're talking about the death penalty. Do you mean a second chance to kill? Let's kill babies but let the worst of the worst have "a second chance"? Nah. Not my style.

With all of the "problems" Obama wants to "fix", where's that money coming from? Just the rich? I doubt it. And if so, that's stupid, too.

Obama favors gun manufactures being sued. McCain doesn't. That's part of the gun control problem for me, but this is a very small issue on my list.