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InvincibleCakeEater wrote:

Vidor wrote:

obucard wrote:

Vidor wrote:Not sure why this keeps shocking people. He's not going to leave himself without a catcher on the bench. He just isn't.

He eventually will. Of course, that will be the time it backfires and the board explodes wondering why he burned his backup C so early.

You know it. "WTF WHY DID TONY LEAVE US WITHOUT A CATCHER IN THE 15TH INNING? WHAT IS KYLE LOHSE DOING BEHIDN THE PLATE! HE NEEDS TO RETIRE!!!"

Here's a crazy idea: Anderson plays left field. That way if Yadi gets injured there is already a player capable of catching in the game and not completely draining the 4 hole behind Pujols. He wouldn't be any worse in left than Lopez was at SS. Contrary to what Tony tries to tell us and how he operates, other teams use their backup catcher to PH all the time. Because even if both catchers get hurt so bad they have to leave the game, you can still throw your [expletive] end of the bench players (Miles/Winn) behind the plate, because by that time you're pretty much [expletive] anyways.

I suggested this during the game in the GDT, but it was laughed off.

I've been doing a lot of Tony-defending lately, so just let me change gears and reiterate that I find his refusal to use a backup catcher flat-out idiotic.

Vidor wrote:

obucard wrote:

Vidor wrote:Not sure why this keeps shocking people. He's not going to leave himself without a catcher on the bench. He just isn't.

He eventually will. Of course, that will be the time it backfires and the board explodes wondering why he burned his backup C so early.

You know it. "WTF WHY DID TONY LEAVE US WITHOUT A CATCHER IN THE 15TH INNING? WHAT IS KYLE LOHSE DOING BEHIDN THE PLATE! HE NEEDS TO RETIRE!!!"

Sorry, this is total [expletive], so stop peddling it.

I stopped watching closely after they tied it up, and completely after the 12th. So I'm not sure who was in the game and who was available, but one option that we could have used was to PH Anderson and move Molina to 3B. As long as you have two catchers in the game, you cover an emergency.

And nobody has mentioned this - but we burnt Lopez unnecessarily. Before you tell me that it was necessary to burn him to get him out of the game, I don't think he should have been there in the first place. But if you are going to do that, with the roster construction as such, you can't pull him after 2AB's.

The way LaRussa manages, it got me to wondering about how well he does in x-tra inning games. Guess the last time the Cardinals had a winning record in x-tra inning games....

[SHOW]

2005 (5-3).

Previous years:
Current: 5-7
2009: 5-6
2008: 6-12
2007: 5-6
2006: 5-6

Past 5 years that's 26-37.

jim wrote:I stopped watching closely after they tied it up, and completely after the 12th. So I'm not sure who was in the game and who was available, but one option that we could have used was to PH Anderson and move Molina to 3B. As long as you have two catchers in the game, you cover an emergency.

And nobody has mentioned this - but we burnt Lopez unnecessarily. Before you tell me that it was necessary to burn him to get him out of the game, I don't think he should have been there in the first place. But if you are going to do that, with the roster construction as such, you can't pull him after 2AB's.

The way LaRussa manages, it got me to wondering about how well he does in x-tra inning games. Guess the last time the Cardinals had a winning record in x-tra inning games....

[SHOW]

2005 (5-3).

Previous years:
Current: 5-7
2009: 5-6
2008: 6-12
2007: 5-6
2006: 5-6

Past 5 years that's 26-37.

So, 'play a hard nine' and take your chances after that?

jagtrader wrote:

Vidor wrote:

obucard wrote:

Vidor wrote:Not sure why this keeps shocking people. He's not going to leave himself without a catcher on the bench. He just isn't.

He eventually will. Of course, that will be the time it backfires and the board explodes wondering why he burned his backup C so early.

You know it. "WTF WHY DID TONY LEAVE US WITHOUT A CATCHER IN THE 15TH INNING? WHAT IS KYLE LOHSE DOING BEHIDN THE PLATE! HE NEEDS TO RETIRE!!!"

Sorry, this is total [expletive], so stop peddling it.

::thinks::

No. At least, not as long as Bryan Anderson is represented as the pivotal moment in a loss that in fact rests squarely on the shoulders of Carpenter, McClellan and Franklin. Of course, blaming the players isn't fun.

Vidor wrote:No. At least, not as long as Bryan Anderson is represented as the pivotal moment in a loss that in fact rests squarely on the shoulders of Carpenter, McClellan and Franklin. Of course, blaming the players isn't fun.

Yes, Carpenter, McClellan and Franklin all contributed to this loss. We understand that. Stop beating the dead horse. It's getting old. At least have some substance to your arguments.

The failures of our players explain why were forced to go to extra innings. No one is arguing with you on that. However, it has absolutely nothing to do with, and does not at all justify, La Russa's idiotic decision-making during extra innings.

But wait, you're right. The loss isn't on La Russa. Kyle Lohse is a player. Adam Wainwright is a player. We should blame them for not coming through as pinch-hitters in extra innings. That's completely reasonable to have them bat in those situations, even with a respectable hitter on the bench.

Kyle wrote:Yes, Carpenter, McClellan and Franklin all contributed to this loss.

Well, that's progress. Of course, they didn't contribute to the loss so much as they were completely responsible for it. Well, them and Hawksworth, the fourth and last goat, who turned in his usual crappy performance to take the L. Hard to blame any of the hitters on a night where the St. Louis DFAs put up ten runs. There seems to be a weird reluctance to ever blame the players for not playing well, unless the player is an Internet whipping boy like Miles or Winn. Goodness knows this thread would probably be twenty pages longer if the game had turned on an error by Lil' Tone.

Just remember, the next time that we go into an extra inning game, that TLR is going to hold on to his backup catcher as long as he can. It's happened before, it happened last night, and it will happen again. It's not a surprise. It's what he does.

Vidor wrote:Just remember, the next time that we go into an extra inning game, that TLR is going to hold on to his backup catcher as long as he can. It's happened before, it happened last night, and it will happen again. It's not a surprise. It's what he does.

Just because it's predictable or part of his philosophy doesn't mean it isn't subject to criticism.

Further, turning Bryan Anderson into the pivotal element of last night's game draws attention from other, bigger problems. Like our closer who lacks closer stuff and can't miss bats. Second year of a two-year, $6.5M contract coming up. Are we stuck with him? Should they think about trying to move him in the offseason and giving the closer role to Motte? Is this wishful thinking on my part born out of a desperate desire to never see Ryan Franklin pitch for the Cardinals again?