Scott Rolen for Troy Glaus (Update: Finalized!)

[jim]

so we shouldn't be on here discussing the trade?

except to say let's wait and see, and that's it?

k...

this board is going to be pretty dead, hope no one gets paid for any advertising or anything...

Bingo. What is the point of discussing a trade two years after it happened? I'm pretty sure I could be about perfect under those conditions. The fun is discussing the trade now.

[Faceman]

Has Rolen played for a MLB manager yet that he's been able to get along with? Has he played for a team yet that he hasn't wanted to leave? How does that land squarely on Larussa?

Rolen has played for LaRussa and Larry Freaking Bowa. Both whacked out nut jobs, one who figured out a way to be a successful manager. Putting a player down for having difficulties with those two is ridiculous.

You didn't have to be a whacked out nut job to see that Rolen needed to be benched in 2006 postseason.

If he can't handle that, that's on him. He's a big boy, regardless of how or if TLR delivers that message.

[jim]

Has Rolen played for a MLB manager yet that he's been able to get along with? Has he played for a team yet that he hasn't wanted to leave? How does that land squarely on Larussa?

Rolen has played for LaRussa and Larry Freaking Bowa. Both whacked out nut jobs, one who figured out a way to be a successful manager. Putting a player down for having difficulties with those two is ridiculous.

Anyone else on the Cardinals having a problem with Larussa?

If past player polls are any indication, I'd say about half of the team. He's always been an abrasive manager, I'm not faulting him for his style because it has worked. But to accuse Rolen of being a problem child because he didn't get along with LaRussa and Bowa isn't fair to a guy that busts his butt every day.

[clement]

If past player polls are any indication, I'd say about half of the team. He's always been an abrasive manager, I'm not faulting him for his style because it has worked. But to accuse Rolen of being a problem child because he didn't get along with LaRussa and Bowa isn't fair to a guy that busts his butt every day.

I'm pretty sure Larussa busts his butt every day as well, so is it fair to accuse him of being a whacked out nut job?

And which player polls are you referring to? What about the one that was done this offseason where the only person on the team who didn't want Larussa back was Rolen?

[doe_boy]

Winning managers who were/are 'whacked out nut jobs'*

Off the top of my head...

Billy Martin
John McGraw
Earl Weaver
Casey Stengel
Lou Pinella

*The term 'whacked out nut job' being entirely subjective and used only for discussion purposes.

[jim]

Has Rolen played for a MLB manager yet that he's been able to get along with? Has he played for a team yet that he hasn't wanted to leave? How does that land squarely on Larussa?

Rolen has played for LaRussa and Larry Freaking Bowa. Both whacked out nut jobs, one who figured out a way to be a successful manager. Putting a player down for having difficulties with those two is ridiculous.

You didn't have to be a whacked out nut job to see that Rolen needed to be benched in 2006 postseason.

If he can't handle that, that's on him. He's a big boy, regardless of how or if TLR delivers that message.

One of LaRussa's finest hours was the '06 post season. One last spark, and benching Rolen was the right move.

But how it was communicated I have no idea. You do owe that to a player who tried to play through a huge chunk of soft tissue ripped away from the bone, who put his butt out there every day and gave 110%. I have no idea how it was communicated, but LaRussa has a track record of poor communication at times.

And that was just one incident of many imo. Not THE incident, just one of.

[jim]

If past player polls are any indication, I'd say about half of the team. He's always been an abrasive manager, I'm not faulting him for his style because it has worked. But to accuse Rolen of being a problem child because he didn't get along with LaRussa and Bowa isn't fair to a guy that busts his butt every day.

I'm pretty sure Larussa busts his butt every day as well, so is it fair to accuse him of being a whacked out nut job?

And which player polls are you referring to? What about the one that was done this offseason where the only person on the team who didn't want Larussa back was Rolen?

SI did a players poll a couple of years ago. Two polls, players were asked who they wanted to play for most and who they wanted to play for least. LaRussa won both.

Did you read 3 nights? If not, read it and tell me if you don't think he pretty whacked out. And yes I know that baseball is full of them, which is why I said in my initial post that he is a successful manager.

edit - I completely agree that LaRussa busts his butt. He's another 110%-er. No question about it.

[UK]

Two egos, two stubborn people. Both probably could've handled it batter while expecting the other to handle it better.

The flaw wasn't the rift, unless you're a player's manager, you're not going to be well liked just have to be respected.

The problem was not being able to work past it.

[KyCardinalFan]

so we shouldn't be on here discussing the trade?

except to say let's wait and see, and that's it?

k...

this board is going to be pretty dead, hope no one gets paid for any advertising or anything...

Bingo. What is the point of discussing a trade two years after it happened? I'm pretty sure I could be about perfect under those conditions. The fun is discussing the trade now.

Discuss a trade, I'm all for it. But the declarations in absolutes, belittling contrary opinions and resisting considering the other side isn't discussion, IMO. Which is what was going on when I made that remark prompting T11's hyperbole.

I was just surprised at the remarks, that's all. Please, carry on. Don't mind me.

[jim]

Two egos, two stubborn people. Both probably could've handled it batter while expecting the other to handle it better.

The flaw wasn't the rift, unless you're a player's manager, you're not going to be well liked just have to be respected.

The problem was not being able to work past it.

I think that's it in a nutshell. Both share some responsibility, but I guess I put more of the blame on LaRussa simply because it's more a part of his job. I just view players as players, but a big part of the managers job is the off the field. Plain old leadership, and 9 times out of 10 good leadership doesn't result in things this ugly.

There are those times where it can't be avoided, but I guess I'm of the impression that it's the manager who needs to swallow his ego and not the player.

And maybe that all happened and I'm blaming the wrong guy. All I know is what I see on the field, and no way am I looking at Rolen as a player who can't be dealt with from a managers point of view. I wish I had a roster full of guys that played like he did.

Maybe I should reiterate here though that I think the Rolen for Glauss trade was a slight + for the Cardinals. We've taken this down to the feud, which I guess is fair game if you think that this was a bad trade, but I don't want to come across as being down on the trade because I happened to like Rolen as a player.