How does Biden represent change? He's just as much a Washington insider as McCain. This pick doesn't excite me at all.
I agree. Biden isn't going to help Obama with votes at all. He should have taken Hilary on the ticket.
If Hilary had narrowly edged Obama I guarantee she would have put him on the ticket and it would have been the smart thing to do. Obama should have done the same. There are a lot of women out there for whom Hilary represented to them historically what Obama's candidacy represents to many African Americans (and other minorities).
I don't know how it's possible, but I'm getting this sinking feeling that the Dems are gonna piss away yet another election that they should have won easily.
Last edited by clement on August 26 08, 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
I don't know that Hillary would have accepted, and I don't think she gets him any votes. She certainly doesn't represent any sort of change. He's going to take New York anyway. She might have helped with Arkansas, but I don't see someone who voted for Hillary suddenly throwing their vote to John McCain. I could see some centrists or Republicans who were concerned about Obama being too young or liberal being reassured enough to vote for him. Had I not already made up my mind, it would have helped get me over. I like Biden, for all his flaws.
ghostrunner wrote:I don't know that Hillary would have accepted, and I don't think she gets him any votes. She certainly doesn't represent any sort of change. He's going to take New York anyway. She might have helped with Arkansas, but I don't see someone who voted for Hillary suddenly throwing their vote to John McCain. I could see some centrists or Republicans who were concerned about Obama being too young or liberal being reassured enough to vote for him. Had I not already made up my mind, it would have helped get me over. I like Biden, for all his flaws.
Hilary energizes a lot of people. Biden doesn't energize anyone. Did he ever get over 10% of the vote in any primary? I think Hilary represents change as well.
As far as Hilary supporters throwing their support behind McCain, apparently a pretty large percentage of them are saying that's exactly what they are going to do. I think some people underestimate the pull that Hilary had with moderate, independent women. And those moderate, independent women are neither loyal to the Democratic party, nor to Barack Obama.
ghostrunner wrote:I don't know that Hillary would have accepted, and I don't think she gets him any votes. She certainly doesn't represent any sort of change. He's going to take New York anyway. She might have helped with Arkansas, but I don't see someone who voted for Hillary suddenly throwing their vote to John McCain. I could see some centrists or Republicans who were concerned about Obama being too young or liberal being reassured enough to vote for him. Had I not already made up my mind, it would have helped get me over. I like Biden, for all his flaws.
Hilary energizes a lot of people. Biden doesn't energize anyone. Did he ever get over 10% of the vote in any primary? I think Hilary represents change as well.
As far as Hilary supporters throwing their support behind McCain, apparently a pretty large percentage of them are saying that's exactly what they are going to do. I think some people underestimate the pull that Hilary had with moderate, independent women. And those moderate, independent women are neither loyal to the Democratic party, nor to Barack Obama.
She ticks alot of people off too.
I think shedding the Clintons is a good thing, especially with the message Obama is trying to send.
Especially the Neo-Cons...they would have had the drums beating for all the Republicans to come out and vote *against* Hillary...not *for* McCain.
They do that no matter who the candidate is... Gore, Kerry, and now Obama. Adding Hilary to the ticket won't change that.
I realize that Hilary is very unpopular in certain places, but she's a lot more popular than you think in some of the places that matter most (Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan).
And I realize she's not popular here,... but then this site is about 90% male.
ghostrunner wrote:I don't know that Hillary would have accepted, and I don't think she gets him any votes. She certainly doesn't represent any sort of change. He's going to take New York anyway. She might have helped with Arkansas, but I don't see someone who voted for Hillary suddenly throwing their vote to John McCain. I could see some centrists or Republicans who were concerned about Obama being too young or liberal being reassured enough to vote for him. Had I not already made up my mind, it would have helped get me over. I like Biden, for all his flaws.
Hilary energizes a lot of people. Biden doesn't energize anyone. Did he ever get over 10% of the vote in any primary? I think Hilary represents change as well.
As far as Hilary supporters throwing their support behind McCain, apparently a pretty large percentage of them are saying that's exactly what they are going to do. I think some people underestimate the pull that Hilary had with moderate, independent women. And those moderate, independent women are neither loyal to the Democratic party, nor to Barack Obama.
I've read that too, but I have a hard time believing it. For what it's worth there were also people here who said they'd vote McCain if Hillary won the nomination. You could just as easily argue that she'd turn a lot of people off.
I don't see a lot of change in her. By most accounts she ran a poorly managed campaign, didn't take criticism well, and was too willing to do typical fearmongering stuff like the 3 AM ad, and harping on Obama's inexperience despite having very little herself. She didn't handle people's fondness for Obama well either (the pillow comment in one of the debates). She's old school politics and she and Bill both have a bad rep in that respect. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.
Especially the Neo-Cons...they would have had the drums beating for all the Republicans to come out and vote *against* Hillary...not *for* McCain.
They do that no matter who the candidate is... Gore, Kerry, and now Obama. Adding Hilary to the ticket won't change that.
I realize that Hilary is very unpopular in certain places, but she's a lot more popular than you think in some of the places that matter most (Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan).
And I realize she's not popular here,... but then this site is about 90% male.
For most of his campaign, Obama has stressed change, and insinuated that Hilary is just a continuation of the Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton cycle that we want to bust out of. Turning around and having her be a running mate kinda contradicts that. If he wanted to garner female votes, there's other female candidates he could have considered outside of Hilary. Though not many have much experience (not like Hilary's experience is outstanding).
I don't think there was a snowball's chance in hades that Hilary would have named Obama as a running mate after that primary battle.
