Cards get Jeff Weaver

Post by **Michael** » July 5 06, 9:33 pm

Fat_Strat wrote:To others on this thread who aren't so sure about the deal. Just take a look at Ponson's peripherals this season. It can't get much worse. If Weaver is only a shred of what he's been in the past then he's still better than what Ponson is likely to give us the rest of the season.

And Terry Evans wasn't likely to make a contribution to the big league club anytimer in the near future.

There's no downside to this trade, and really no reason to dislike it. He can only help the club and will only cost us a little money and a minor prospect who was having his first good season as a pro.

This post nails it.

Capt_Morgan · Post by **Capt_Morgan** » July 5 06, 9:34 pm

he is still young enough to turn things around

skmsw · Post by **skmsw** » July 5 06, 9:34 pm

Downsides?

Well, we're presumably on the hook for the $4.25mm Weaver will get in the second half (or else LA probably woould have wanted an actual, breathing player in return).

Ponson (for instance) only has a little less upside than Weaver, is cheaper, doesn't allow homers by the bushel, and by some accounts, is just as due to turn it around as SurferDude.

Selling low on someone like Soup or Marquis right now, when they are somewhat unlikely to keep pitching this bad, could be a mistake, especially if Weaver DOES in fact keep pitching this bad.

But don't misunderstand --- I'm not against taking a flier on Weaver. I've actually always liked him, and in 2003 when the Cards were trying to trade for a starter to try and stay in the race, I really, really wanted them to get him (he went to the Yanks). Our team is now built a LOT differently than it used to be, and the risk of shifting things seems pretty low -- this team is not built with the same inter-dependencies that (intentionally or unknowlingly) the 2004 team was. So, try something different -- hard to pass up on the chance to add an $8.5mm pitcher for Terry freakin Evans while your staff is getting torched nightly at a ballpark near you . . .

JohnnyJay · Post by **JohnnyJay** » July 5 06, 9:35 pm

Capt_Morgan wrote:he is still young enough to turn things around

ReMorgan? Is that you?

Fat Strat · Post by **Fat Strat** » July 5 06, 9:35 pm

fanforever wrote:This pitcher is the opposite of jason Marquis IMO. Jason is not good early in the game but comes on strong in the 5th 6th and 7th innings. Jeff is good early in the game but in the middle innings he begins to lose his focus. This guy would be an oustanding middle relief pitcher IMO. I believe Duncan is willing to think outside the box and adjust his thinking to make use of a pitcher like Weaver so he can last 6 innings. He tails down somewhat by pitches 61-75 (certainly this past year and also somewhat in previous years) he becomes terrible.

Actually, this isn't entirely true. Take a look at his pitch count splits here. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/s ... g3&three=1

For the last three years his first innings have been weaker than his middle innings. Pitches 61-75 have been his best.

Don't read too much into those stats, though. They can indicate a pitcher's stamina or inability to get starter strong. But, when they are up and down like Weavers, it only tells you that the starter is inconsistent.

Which was common knowledge about Weaver, and just about every other league-average pitcher in baseball history.

Post by **Michael** » July 5 06, 9:36 pm

Are we paying $4.25m?

Capt_Morgan · Post by **Capt_Morgan** » July 5 06, 9:38 pm

JohnnyJay wrote:
Capt_Morgan wrote:he is still young enough to turn things around
ReMorgan? Is that you?

sure is

Post by **Michael** » July 5 06, 9:38 pm

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=a ... &type=lgns

docellis · Post by **docellis** » July 5 06, 9:40 pm

skmsw wrote:So, try something different -- hard to pass up on the chance to add an $8.5mm pitcher for Terry freakin Evans while your staff is getting torched nightly at a ballpark near you . . .

Just because someone paid someone 8.5 mm doesn't make him an 8.5 mm pitcher (in my mind anyway).

I've never seen him pitch like a 5mm pitcher.

But I don't know nearly what you guys do in terms of peripherals and splits. I just watched him. And he never looked like an 8.5 mm pitcher to me.

Mary1966 · Post by **Mary1966** » July 5 06, 9:43 pm

Michael wrote:
Mary1966 wrote:
Capt_Morgan wrote:poor mary_1966,who will she root for now?
The Cardinals. You don't quit being a fan just because one player leaves the team. My previous favorite team, the Expos, got moved out from under me, so that's why I quit following them.
You gotta feel bad for Ponson right now.

Last year, when the Orioles were trying to deal him in July, he had to go out and pitch for a team that was trying to get rid of him. A deal to send him to San Diego for Phil Nevin was announced, and he took the mound in Tampa Bay, went 7 innings, with 3 ER. The deal fell through when Nevin vetoed the trade. He pitched two more times for the Orioles before going on the DL in August and then getting cut in September. I imagine he must feel somewhat the same way right now.