Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[PujolJunkie]

So you support Obama's "religious" views? You think it's okay what his church stands for?

Okay, I'll bite. It's obvious you're dying to tell us. What does Obama's former church "stand for"?

And while you're at it, tell us how it differs from other black churches that you're aware of.

*Edit: Cool (Page 600 of 600 [ 6000 posts ])

I work with a black minister. The church he preaches at believes in worshiping God and following the Bible. He disagrees with what Trinity does. Strongly.

And I'd say that most of them follow, at least mostly, the denomination they are. I also know people that grew up in black churches that left because the church didn't follow the Bible like they would have preferred, but it wasn't anything radical or hate-based.

And some of my best friends are black.

[PujolJunkie]

And for the record, when this thread was actually talking about the issues instead of churches and Obama being a socialist, it was much less hostile. Just saying. Go back a couple pages and look at how this started. The mods have warned against the hostility and crap before, and every time we solve it, something stupid gets brought up again.

[BW23]

I'm losing it? How so? Seriously. I shouldn't care about the beliefs his church was built on...a church he spent 20 years in, got married in and had his kids baptized in? A church that has clearly helped shape him?

I don't have an opportunity to listen to the radio during the work day. Sorry. I've probably heard less than an hour of Rush for all of 2008 put together.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Why does it matter again?

Have you criticized, at least once, what Palin or McCain believe in from a religious standpoint and what they might carry over to the presidency if a miracle happened and they were elected? You obviously think that there should be a separation, or is that just when republicans might carry over some beliefs?

[TimeForGuinness]

And for the record, when this thread was actually talking about the issues instead of churches and Obama being a socialist, it was much less hostile. Just saying. Go back a couple pages and look at how this started. The mods have warned against the hostility and crap before, and every time we solve it, something stupid gets brought up again.

I agree...it's time to take a break from religion because people are very passionate about it.

Let's get back to the issues of the presidency.

[BW23]

And for the record, when this thread was actually talking about the issues instead of churches and Obama being a socialist, it was much less hostile. Just saying. Go back a couple pages and look at how this started. The mods have warned against the hostility and crap before, and every time we solve it, something stupid gets brought up again.

What have I said that's stupid?

The stories for the day surround these "new" Obama tapes. What he is saying in some of that is tied into what his "church" preaches.

Or is crap anything negative aimed at Obama....even if it's the truth?

[BW23]

So you support Obama's "religious" views? You think it's okay what his church stands for?

Okay, I'll bite. It's obvious you're dying to tell us. What does Obama's former church "stand for"?

And while you're at it, tell us how it differs from other black churches that you're aware of.

*Edit: Cool (Page 600 of 600 [ 6000 posts ])

I work with a black minister. The church he preaches at believes in worshiping God and following the Bible. He disagrees with what Trinity does. Strongly.

And I'd say that most of them follow, at least mostly, the denomination they are. I also know people that grew up in black churches that left because the church didn't follow the Bible like they would have preferred, but it wasn't anything radical or hate-based.

And some of my best friends are black.

Got a point there?

[GatewaySnayke]

Actually, it'd be really scary if we elected leaders from a party that embraced someone who said that Katrina was payback for homosexuality. Or that embraced someone who chased a woman out of a village because she was a "demon." Or embraced someone that believes in Zionism.

Good thing we've never done those, eh?

So you support Obama's "religious" views? You think it's okay what his church stands for?

Nice dodge.

Have you criticized, at least once, what Palin or McCain believe in from a religious standpoint and what they might carry over to the presidency if a miracle happened and they were elected? You obviously think that there should be a separation, or is that just when republicans might carry over some beliefs?

People are only bringing it up because they are so freaked out by what happened in Trinity. It's no less dangerous than being convinced that God brought Katrina on to wipe out homosexuality in New Orleans.

[PujolJunkie]

As I continue my complete and utter fanboy appreciation for 538, Sean posted a fantastic blog today about what he calls the "Three Ashleys." It's pretty awesome.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/ ... hleys.html

At its core, Obama's Ashley story is one both of organizing and of the strength discovered when Americans recognize in each other a common humanity. Not only are these two defining cornerstones of how Barack Obama has conducted his campaign, the Ashley story Obama tells is an argument for his election.

As a palate-cleanser from the disgraced Ashley Todd, the final part of Barack Obama's More Perfect Union speech on race, March 18, 2008, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania:

[SHOW]

There is a young, twenty-three year old white woman named Ashley Baia who organized for our campaign in Florence, South Carolina. She had been working to organize a mostly African-American community since the beginning of this campaign, and one day she was at a roundtable discussion where everyone went around telling their story and why they were there.

And Ashley said that when she was nine years old, her mother got cancer. And because she had to miss days of work, she was let go and lost her health care. They had to file for bankruptcy, and that's when Ashley decided that she had to do something to help her mom.

She knew that food was one of their most expensive costs, and so Ashley convinced her mother that what she really liked and really wanted to eat more than anything else was mustard and relish sandwiches. Because that was the cheapest way to eat.

She did this for a year until her mom got better, and she told everyone at the roundtable that the reason she joined our campaign was so that she could help the millions of other children in the country who want and need to help their parents too.

Now Ashley might have made a different choice. Perhaps somebody told her along the way that the source of her mother's problems were blacks who were on welfare and too lazy to work, or Hispanics who were coming into the country illegally. But she didn't. She sought out allies in her fight against injustice.

Anyway, Ashley finishes her story and then goes around the room and asks everyone else why they're supporting the campaign. They all have different stories and reasons. Many bring up a specific issue. And finally they come to this elderly black man who's been sitting there quietly the entire time. And Ashley asks him why he's there. And he does not bring up a specific issue. He does not say health care or the economy. He does not say education or the war. He does not say that he was there because of Barack Obama. He simply says to everyone in the room, "I am here because of Ashley."

"I'm here because of Ashley." By itself, that single moment of recognition between that young white girl and that old black man is not enough. It is not enough to give health care to the sick, or jobs to the jobless, or education to our children.

But it is where we start. It is where our union grows stronger. And as so many generations have come to realize over the course of the two-hundred and twenty one years since a band of patriots signed that document in Philadelphia, that is where the perfection begins.

[BW23]

I'm losing it? How so? Seriously. I shouldn't care about the beliefs his church was built on...a church he spent 20 years in, got married in and had his kids baptized in? A church that has clearly helped shape him?

Do people think that church has that big of an impact on their lives? I always thought it was a place to learn and reflect...not a brainwashing institute...maybe I'm wrong though.

It has a big impact on my life.

Even if it's just a place to learn and reflect, which I guess for a lot of people it is, doesn't what the basis of that church pushes have some impact? Just a little?

[jim]

I'm losing it? How so? Seriously. I shouldn't care about the beliefs his church was built on...a church he spent 20 years in, got married in and had his kids baptized in? A church that has clearly helped shape him?

I don't have an opportunity to listen to the radio during the work day. Sorry. I've probably heard less than an hour of Rush for all of 2008 put together.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Why does it matter again?

Have you criticized, at least once, what Palin or McCain believe in from a religious standpoint and what they might carry over to the presidency if a miracle happened and they were elected? You obviously think that there should be a separation, or is that just when republicans might carry over some beliefs?

I believe in complete seperation. Total and complete.