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PujolJunkie wrote:I would have picked McCain or Giuliani. Now, I don't think I could ever like any of the people who ran in the (R) primaries.

After his RNC speech, I really, really loathe Giuliani.

UK wrote:As far as Joe the plumber, he's a liar, how was he going to the money to pay for a business that would earn over 250K?

Do you know how much in assets and payroll he would have to pay for to accumulate that amount of income especially in OH?

He couldn't afford to pay 1200 in taxes, hell, I avg. that every 2 months and I don't make near 250K. His house is worth around 120K and he's behind in his taxes and had to rely on people paying 1200 to save his home.

He probably couldn't qualify for a used car loan.

Yeah - some people shouldn't run a small business. A guy like Joe would get in there and not turn in the payroll withholdings and would go bankrupt screwing over his vendors, lenders and the rest of us.

politicians clamor over generic clowns like Joe the Plumber, and ignore concerns of real business owners like Cards2468's dad. Both campaigns pay such reverence to small business like they are some magical machines. Its an election though so we expect this. But frankly, half of them are out of business within a couple years, causing more harm than good.

Popeye_Card wrote:

PujolJunkie wrote:I would have picked McCain or Giuliani. Now, I don't think I could ever like any of the people who ran in the (R) primaries.

After his RNC speech, I really, really loathe Giuliani.

Yep.

The reason I liked Rudy was simply because I saw him as honorable and truly a good guy. But since.. probably January of 07 or so, he's just really fallen off the table for me. From S-CHIP to the war, to his [expletive] at the convention, his stances on the issues have become really whacko to me. But his social stances are absolutely amazing for a Republican. I just wish he hadn't completely crapped the bed by mentioning 9/11 so much that it was his middle name and that he wasn't such a Bush lapdog. I really would have loved to see him and Obama in the general election.

Freed Roger wrote:

UK wrote:As far as Joe the plumber, he's a liar, how was he going to the money to pay for a business that would earn over 250K?

Do you know how much in assets and payroll he would have to pay for to accumulate that amount of income especially in OH?

He couldn't afford to pay 1200 in taxes, hell, I avg. that every 2 months and I don't make near 250K. His house is worth around 120K and he's behind in his taxes and had to rely on people paying 1200 to save his home.

He probably couldn't qualify for a used car loan.

Yeah - some people shouldn't run a small business. A guy like Joe would get in there and not turn in the payroll withholdings and would go bankrupt screwing over his vendors, lenders and the rest of us.

politicians clamor over generic clowns like Joe the Plumber, and ignore concerns of real business owners like Cards2468's dad. Both campaigns pay such reverence to small business like they are some magical machines. Its an election though so we expect this. But frankly, half of them are out of business within a couple years, causing more harm than good.

I honestly think Joe was confusing revenues and profits when he discussed this with Obama. I could see a small plumbing business with maybe 5 employees generating $250K in annual sales, but profits would very likely be less than $50K on sales at that level. As an owner, he'd be nowhere near the Obama threshold, and would actually benefit slightly from lower withholding payments on worker salaries (the lower withholding would reduce his monthly cash outflow).

Freed Roger wrote:

UK wrote:As far as Joe the plumber, he's a liar, how was he going to the money to pay for a business that would earn over 250K?

Do you know how much in assets and payroll he would have to pay for to accumulate that amount of income especially in OH?

He couldn't afford to pay 1200 in taxes, hell, I avg. that every 2 months and I don't make near 250K. His house is worth around 120K and he's behind in his taxes and had to rely on people paying 1200 to save his home.

He probably couldn't qualify for a used car loan.

Yeah - some people shouldn't run a small business. A guy like Joe would get in there and not turn in the payroll withholdings and would go bankrupt screwing over his vendors, lenders and the rest of us.

politicians clamor over generic clowns like Joe the Plumber, and ignore concerns of real business owners like Cards2468's dad. Both campaigns pay such reverence to small business like they are some magical machines. Its an election though so we expect this. But frankly, half of them are out of business within a couple years, causing more harm than good.

Small businesses SHOULD get this level of attention. Small businesses employ the majority of the US workforce, create the majority of new jobs, and are a prime source of innovation.

Hungary Jack wrote:

Freed Roger wrote:

UK wrote:As far as Joe the plumber, he's a liar, how was he going to the money to pay for a business that would earn over 250K?

Do you know how much in assets and payroll he would have to pay for to accumulate that amount of income especially in OH?

He couldn't afford to pay 1200 in taxes, hell, I avg. that every 2 months and I don't make near 250K. His house is worth around 120K and he's behind in his taxes and had to rely on people paying 1200 to save his home.

He probably couldn't qualify for a used car loan.

Yeah - some people shouldn't run a small business. A guy like Joe would get in there and not turn in the payroll withholdings and would go bankrupt screwing over his vendors, lenders and the rest of us.

politicians clamor over generic clowns like Joe the Plumber, and ignore concerns of real business owners like Cards2468's dad. Both campaigns pay such reverence to small business like they are some magical machines. Its an election though so we expect this. But frankly, half of them are out of business within a couple years, causing more harm than good.

I honestly think Joe was confusing revenues and profits when he discussed this with Obama. I could see a small plumbing business with maybe 5 employees generating $250K in annual sales, but profits would very likely be less than $50K on sales at that level. As an owner, he'd be nowhere near the Obama threshold, and would actually benefit slightly from lower withholding payments on worker salaries (the lower withholding would reduce his monthly cash outflow).

He knew what he was getting at as he tried to put Obama in an awkward situation by getting Obama to tell him that he would raise his taxes of an avg. Joe.

Popeye_Card wrote:

PujolJunkie wrote:I would have picked McCain or Giuliani. Now, I don't think I could ever like any of the people who ran in the (R) primaries.

After his RNC speech, I really, really loathe Giuliani.

Giuliani is disgusting. He's a fearmonger. The only thing that gives him any credibility on a national level is that he happened to be the mayor of NYC on 9/11 and he won't let anyone forget that.

I've had an unfavorable opinion of him for years though, ever since reading an article in The Believer detailing the way he underhandedly eliminated political competition in his run for mayor and during his tenure. Also, he gets all this credit for cleaning up NYC when many of the programs there responsible for that were already running when he got into office. What Giuliani was good at was putting homeless people in jail for being homeless.

Rasmussen makes their final projection - Obama 364, McCain 174 with the Democrats picking up 7 to 8 senate seats.

Rasmussen calls it for Obama.

From "The Programming Insider":

8:00 p.m. - Barack Obama Political Message
NBC: 6.7/11 (#1)
CBS: 6.1/10 (#2)
Fox: 5.0/ 8 (#3)

In total, that came to an impressive 17.8 rating/29 share in the 8 p.m. half-hour.

letsgocards89 wrote:

Freed Roger wrote:

UK wrote:As far as Joe the plumber, he's a liar, how was he going to the money to pay for a business that would earn over 250K?

Do you know how much in assets and payroll he would have to pay for to accumulate that amount of income especially in OH?

He couldn't afford to pay 1200 in taxes, hell, I avg. that every 2 months and I don't make near 250K. His house is worth around 120K and he's behind in his taxes and had to rely on people paying 1200 to save his home.

He probably couldn't qualify for a used car loan.

Yeah - some people shouldn't run a small business. A guy like Joe would get in there and not turn in the payroll withholdings and would go bankrupt screwing over his vendors, lenders and the rest of us.

politicians clamor over generic clowns like Joe the Plumber, and ignore concerns of real business owners like Cards2468's dad. Both campaigns pay such reverence to small business like they are some magical machines. Its an election though so we expect this. But frankly, half of them are out of business within a couple years, causing more harm than good.

Small businesses SHOULD get this level of attention. Small businesses employ the majority of the US workforce, create the majority of new jobs, and are a prime source of innovation.

I agree. So why is Joe the Plumber getting all the attention? Politicians are missing the target with campaign rhetoric. Not a big deal.

I knew a Joe years ago. He actually had a business. Only it lost a boatload of money every year. Lucky for him he had money from other sources. He was a DittoHead, so I would listen to him rant and rave about his high taxes and big government and Clinton this and that. he was a real nice guy..., but the sad irony is that he had no income tax problem of which he ranted. In fact his losses always wiped out his tax problem - got the EIC.