Coronavirus

[sighyoung]

[ghostrunner]

This place in Colorado opened in defiance of public health orders. No soclal distancing. No masks on staff.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

There are plenty that think the best thing to do is just let nature take its course. I think that's ok with me as long as you don't take a spot in the hospital when nature comes for you. If your going to play Darwin, play it all the way.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Is Sweden the example that most 'let nature take its course' cite? If so, it should be noted, Sweden has mostly not shut down but they still have some common sense regulations like requiring certain distances in restaurants, bars shut down or modified greatly, citizens are taking it on themselves to maintain social distance (eg, travel was estimated to be at 10% of normal during Easter), they have free healthcare and capacity in the system so people can get care as soon as they feel sick, and they passed a law requiring companies to pay for sick leave allowing employees to get care as soon as they feel sick. All this information can be found in this video. As of 5 days ago, they estimated 25% of their population had been exposed to the virus. That's ~2.5M people exposed with what will probably be about 4K deaths in another 9 days (giving 14 days from onset to fatality), that puts the infected mortality rate somewhere around 0.2%

Through all this, I've found Trevor Noah to be one of the best interviewers, just letting his guests talk and asking follow up questions that show not only an understanding of what they're saying but also no clear bias trying to steer the interview in certain directions. It's been really refreshing and insightful.

I'm putting this in social because 1) it follows up on what ghost and joe are talking about but also 2) it's an important conversation to have wrt the current situation that isn't political.

To be clear, this isn't defending what the place in CO did. Just meant to add some context to the 'let nature take its course' as I understand it.

[Jocephus]

[mikechamp]

Not trying to judge; just sharing what is actually happening out there:

Mark Cuban Hired Secret Shoppers to Evaluate Reopening Businesses and the Results Were Not Good

In Texas, Governor Greg Abbott has put the state on a path to reopen nonessential businesses on a rolling schedule. It began May 1, when restaurants and retail stores were allowed to open again to 25 percent capacity. Soon after he announced that hair salons could open with a limited capacity on May 8 and that 10 days after that, gyms would be allowed to operate at quarter capacity.

Businesses that choose to reopen have mandatory guidelines they must follow to help stop the spread of Covid-19. For instance, restaurants need to sit groups six feet from each other, tables should be actively disinfected, employees should wear masks and more. But how many shops and restaurants were following those rules? Billionaire entrepreneur and Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban wanted to find out, so he hired secret shoppers to spread out across Dallas and evaluate. Unfortunately, only 4 percent of all businesses they evaluated were fully compliant, according to a study Cuban released on his blog. “Bigger picture, I wanted to know if these are places that I would feel safe taking my family to,” Cuban wrote.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/mark-cu ... 03230.html

[sighyoung]

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Is Sweden the example that most 'let nature take its course' cite? If so, it should be noted, Sweden has mostly not shut down but they still have some common sense regulations like requiring certain distances in restaurants, bars shut down or modified greatly, citizens are taking it on themselves to maintain social distance (eg, travel was estimated to be at 10% of normal during Easter), they have free healthcare and capacity in the system so people can get care as soon as they feel sick, and they passed a law requiring companies to pay for sick leave allowing employees to get care as soon as they feel sick. All this information can be found in this video. As of 5 days ago, they estimated 25% of their population had been exposed to the virus. That's ~2.5M people exposed with what will probably be about 4K deaths in another 9 days (giving 14 days from onset to fatality), that puts the infected mortality rate somewhere around 0.2%

Through all this, I've found Trevor Noah to be one of the best interviewers, just letting his guests talk and asking follow up questions that show not only an understanding of what they're saying but also no clear bias trying to steer the interview in certain directions. It's been really refreshing and insightful.

I'm putting this in social because 1) it follows up on what ghost and joe are talking about but also 2) it's an important conversation to have wrt the current situation that isn't political.

To be clear, this isn't defending what the place in CO did. Just meant to add some context to the 'let nature take its course' as I understand it.

I remember seeing an article from around April 21-22 where the same Dr. Anders was estimating that 20% of the population(maybe just Stockholm) had exposure and they'd be at herd immunity within a couple weeks along with cases declining. In the 3ish weeks since then their case count has gone from ~15k to nearly 27k and the death count has followed suit. That's not to pass judgement on Sweden's methods or competency in any way, but I would also take Dr. Anders' assertions on the success of the project with a grain of salt.

[mikechamp]

It's very early, so something to keep an eye on, but not a good sign:

Wuhan in first virus cluster since end of lockdown

New coronavirus clusters have been reported in Wuhan city - where the virus first emerged - and the north-eastern province of Jilin in China.

Wuhan reported five new cases on Monday, after confirming its first case since 3 April on Sunday. Authorities said the small cluster of cases were all from the same residential compound.

China has been easing restrictions in recent weeks and cases had been declining.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52613138

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Is Sweden the example that most 'let nature take its course' cite? If so, it should be noted, Sweden has mostly not shut down but they still have some common sense regulations like requiring certain distances in restaurants, bars shut down or modified greatly, citizens are taking it on themselves to maintain social distance (eg, travel was estimated to be at 10% of normal during Easter), they have free healthcare and capacity in the system so people can get care as soon as they feel sick, and they passed a law requiring companies to pay for sick leave allowing employees to get care as soon as they feel sick. All this information can be found in this video. As of 5 days ago, they estimated 25% of their population had been exposed to the virus. That's ~2.5M people exposed with what will probably be about 4K deaths in another 9 days (giving 14 days from onset to fatality), that puts the infected mortality rate somewhere around 0.2%

Through all this, I've found Trevor Noah to be one of the best interviewers, just letting his guests talk and asking follow up questions that show not only an understanding of what they're saying but also no clear bias trying to steer the interview in certain directions. It's been really refreshing and insightful.

I'm putting this in social because 1) it follows up on what ghost and joe are talking about but also 2) it's an important conversation to have wrt the current situation that isn't political.

To be clear, this isn't defending what the place in CO did. Just meant to add some context to the 'let nature take its course' as I understand it.

I remember seeing an article from around April 21-22 where the same Dr. Anders was estimating that 20% of the population(maybe just Stockholm) had exposure and they'd be at herd immunity within a couple weeks along with cases declining. In the 3ish weeks since then their case count has gone from ~15k to nearly 27k and the death count has followed suit. That's not to pass judgement on Sweden's methods or competency in any way, but I would also take Dr. Anders' assertions on the success of the project with a grain of salt.

And, to be clear, I'm not advocating for this method per se. Just offering this video because it at least gives some context to the 'let nature take its course' narrative that people seem to dismiss as completely asinine which it may well be. But, if people are going to comment on narratives, let's make sure we understand the narrative and aren't attacking strawmen.

Having watched a few more videos not of Anders but a guy named Professer johan gieseke, he's a big proponent of not mandating changes, relying on citizens to protect themselves and adhering to recommendations of distancing while acknowledging there are more deaths/capita in Sweden but over time (in a year) that delta b/w Sweden and her neighbors will shrink as the virus inevitably (according to him) spreads in the neighboring countries. Again, not saying this is right, I haven't checked into Gieseke's credentials or vetted him, ditto Anders. But, this seems to be the pretty consistent message coming out of Sweden based on 3ish hours of watching youtube videos and reading articles.