Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

[Eephus Speed]

Yeah, Holliday didn't say how much below market value he was willing to accept. Anyway, "market value" is somewhat subjective.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Yeah, Holliday didn't say how much below market value he was willing to accept. Anyway, "market value" is somewhat subjective.

Yeah, if you take 8/180 as his market, the Cardinals are below that by a long shot most likely. However, if his market value is 8/140, something I doubt anyone but the sox offer or top, then the cards are right in line for 'below market' there.

I don't know. We'll see. If he was being sincere, I imagine the Cardinals offer greatly appeals to him. Which is something I'm excited about.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

wait a second.. 8 years? Good Lord. Get Marlon Byrd, Kelly Johnson and Ben Sheets instead.

I am sure you have statistical evidence to back that claim up, and I don't. But, there's no way I'd rather see the Marlon Byrd/Kelly Johnson/Ben Sheets of the world for the next 8 years (even in years 6-8) than Matt Holliday.

3. Pujols
4. Holliday

for the next however many years makes me excited.

[cards2468]

wrong thread...


anyway, if it really is 16 per for 8 yrs, I won't lose sleep if we fail to sign him

[Eephus Speed]

Yeah, Holliday didn't say how much below market value he was willing to accept. Anyway, "market value" is somewhat subjective.

Yeah, if you take 8/180 as his market, the Cardinals are below that by a long shot most likely. However, if his market value is 8/140, something I doubt anyone but the sox offer or top, then the cards are right in line for 'below market' there.

I agree. It wouldn't really be fair for Holliday to say 8/180 is market value just because the Yankees could afford to pay him that.

8/128 is very reasonable, and I'm happy if that's what was offered.

[Eephus Speed]

wait a second.. 8 years? Good Lord. Get Marlon Byrd, Kelly Johnson and Ben Sheets instead.

I am sure you have statistical evidence to back that claim up, and I don't. But, there's no way I'd rather see the Marlon Byrd/Kelly Johnson/Ben Sheets of the world for the next 8 years (even in years 6-8) than Matt Holliday.

3. Pujols
4. Holliday

for the next however many years makes me excited.

I can't speak for haltz, but here's my take:

Sheets has been worth at least 3.5 wins in 6 of the last 8 years (2.2 in 2007 and 0 in 2009). Sort of the definition of high-risk/high-reward, but probably a safer bet than Bedard. Not sure if I'd prefer Sheets or Smoltz...I would have liked to have both (or one of them plus Harden) before we signed Penny (or if we could trade Lohse).

Johnson is tough to predict as it depends somewhat on what position he plays, but he's probably worth 2-3 wins (last season's bad luck aside). Very similar to DeRosa, though Johnson hasn't played much 3B.

Byrd has been worth 8.6 wins over the last 3 seasons and he plays an acceptable center field (he'd fill in for Rasmus on occasion). Cameron's better, and since he's older, I wonder if Cameron will sign for fewer years. Both Byrd and Cameron have been worth more than Bay over the last few seasons.

They should be relatively inexpensive, but you have to do this all over again when those short-term contracts end next year or the year after. Of course, between now and then, an opportunity to acquire another star player may arise...and that star player may cost less than Holliday. But how likely is that?

Holliday gives you stability, and allows you to feel comfortable giving guys like Freese and Craig a chance at 3B. Even with Holliday, I hope we don't rely on Garcia. I want Holliday and Smoltz or Holliday and Sheets. If we still have 30+M to spend, we can afford to sign both.

But, as I said, there's a line I wouldn't cross when it comes to a Holliday contract. I'm just not exactly sure where that line is...somewhere around 8/140, I guess.

[Swirls]

It looks like the BoSox are close to a deal with Cameron, per ESPN. The article doesn't say whether he'll play LF or if he'll play CF and move Ellsbury over to LF. There's a link to it on another thread here in baseball talk, so I'm not going to try and paste one here (too lazy feeling right now).

If that's the case, by Boston signing Cameron it eliminates them from the competition to sign Holliday. That really only leaves the Yankees, who haven't said they're players but I won't dismiss them completely until after Holliday has signed.

[cards2468]

It looks like the BoSox are close to a deal with Cameron, per ESPN. The article doesn't say whether he'll play LF or if he'll play CF and move Ellsbury over to LF. There's a link to it on another thread here in baseball talk, so I'm not going to try and paste one here (too lazy feeling right now).

If that's the case, by Boston signing Cameron it eliminates them from the competition to sign Holliday. That really only leaves the Yankees, who haven't said they're players but I won't dismiss them completely until after Holliday has signed.

git r dun, Walt!

[cards2468]

Joe Strauss says "Movement on the Holliday front"

after Cameron signed his deal... I'd be jumping all over a good 8 year offer if I was Boras.

[BigDCardlvr]

Joe Strauss says "Movement on the Holliday front"

after Cameron signed his deal... I'd be jumping all over a good 8 year offer if I was Boras.

I will not be staying up until midnight for mr strauss again...