Mozeliak: "Some Changes" Coming For Cardinals, But Not A Rebuild

[Magneto2.0]

The Cardinals have the 5th highest payroll allocation to starting pitching in baseball, and 26th in starter ERA

If that doesn't spell out how poorly Mo has mismanaged funds...

I think it speaks more to the abysmal player development (especially starting pitching), which forces them to buy pitchers on the open market.

It's impossible to have successful roster management if you're not building a core from within.

That definitely is a major factor but you would think if you paid 77 Million on a rotation you'd have at least a competent set of arms. They have an abysmal staff.

[Magneto2.0]

I 100% agree with us holding on to prospects too long, causing them to lose value

But I do believe his prior mistakes with trading Randy Arozarena, Adolis García has probably made him gunshy on giving up on guys too early.

[dmarx114]

I just don't trust MO to do a sell off....he'll [expletive] it up

Mo scored on the arenado and goldy deals, but those were teams looking to shed the contract/player wanted out

the FO lack of understanding their players they keep/trade is baffling...

trade alcantara, gallen (called that one when it happened), randy, garcia...hell oviedo has the same ERA as Flaherty and Mikolas...and then we keep guys past their peak trade value like carlson

I mean, this team should not be having guys like Burleson and Baker on this team who have no place...you let them tear it up in the minors like they did, and then trade them at whatever their peak may be

I would think other teams are aware of Burleson and Baker's value, no?

yes correct.

and they serve a need, just not with our team. we have no place for them. look at Burleson's stats in the minors before we ever brought him up...that's valuable for a team that needs his particular skill and could have brought something back our team could use in return (minor league arm).

you get the best pitching prospect the other team will offer for them and move on.

having them on our team serves no purpose other than diminishing their value.

What skill are you referring to, that would be better suited on a different team as opposed to our team?

[dmarx114]

The Cardinals have the 5th highest payroll allocation to starting pitching in baseball, and 26th in starter ERA

If that doesn't spell out how poorly Mo has mismanaged funds...

I think it speaks more to the abysmal player development (especially starting pitching), which forces them to buy pitchers on the open market.

It's impossible to have successful roster management if you're not building a core from within.

That definitely is a major factor but you would think if you paid 77 Million on a rotation you'd have at least a competent set of arms. They have an abysmal staff.

Monty has been very good.

Mikolas and Flaherty have had similar seasons. Both have been great when they are on, but terrible when they are off.

The major problem has been the combination of Waino, Libby, Matz, and Woodford. 40% of our games have practically been unwinnable. Disappointing that all 4 guys bombed.

[cardsfantx]

I just don't trust MO to do a sell off....he'll [expletive] it up

Mo scored on the arenado and goldy deals, but those were teams looking to shed the contract/player wanted out

the FO lack of understanding their players they keep/trade is baffling...

trade alcantara, gallen (called that one when it happened), randy, garcia...hell oviedo has the same ERA as Flaherty and Mikolas...and then we keep guys past their peak trade value like carlson

I mean, this team should not be having guys like Burleson and Baker on this team who have no place...you let them tear it up in the minors like they did, and then trade them at whatever their peak may be

I would think other teams are aware of Burleson and Baker's value, no?

yes correct.

and they serve a need, just not with our team. we have no place for them. look at Burleson's stats in the minors before we ever brought him up...that's valuable for a team that needs his particular skill and could have brought something back our team could use in return (minor league arm).

you get the best pitching prospect the other team will offer for them and move on.

having them on our team serves no purpose other than diminishing their value.

What skill are you referring to, that would be better suited on a different team as opposed to our team?

a guy who can hit very well, but not field...we have a lot of those

another team lacking a DH would most likely give some type of minor league arm for that

[Magneto2.0]

The Cardinals have the 5th highest payroll allocation to starting pitching in baseball, and 26th in starter ERA

If that doesn't spell out how poorly Mo has mismanaged funds...

I think it speaks more to the abysmal player development (especially starting pitching), which forces them to buy pitchers on the open market.

It's impossible to have successful roster management if you're not building a core from within.

That definitely is a major factor but you would think if you paid 77 Million on a rotation you'd have at least a competent set of arms. They have an abysmal staff.

Monty has been very good.

Mikolas and Flaherty have had similar seasons. Both have been great when they are on, but terrible when they are off.

The major problem has been the combination of Waino, Libby, Matz, and Woodford. 40% of our games have practically been unwinnable. Disappointing that all 4 guys bombed.

Yeah Monty has been good

But Mikolas and Flaherty have basically been number 4 starters on contenders, number 3 starters on a bad team. They're guys who if they were on a playoff team, would be in competition to pitch game 4 of a 7 game series.

And the rest of the staff like you said have just not been major league pitchers this year.

It's impossible to carry a staff that badly and win in the majors. Add on to the fact their bullpen is even worse.

[dmarx114]

I just don't trust MO to do a sell off....he'll [expletive] it up

Mo scored on the arenado and goldy deals, but those were teams looking to shed the contract/player wanted out

the FO lack of understanding their players they keep/trade is baffling...

trade alcantara, gallen (called that one when it happened), randy, garcia...hell oviedo has the same ERA as Flaherty and Mikolas...and then we keep guys past their peak trade value like carlson

I mean, this team should not be having guys like Burleson and Baker on this team who have no place...you let them tear it up in the minors like they did, and then trade them at whatever their peak may be

I would think other teams are aware of Burleson and Baker's value, no?

yes correct.

and they serve a need, just not with our team. we have no place for them. look at Burleson's stats in the minors before we ever brought him up...that's valuable for a team that needs his particular skill and could have brought something back our team could use in return (minor league arm).

you get the best pitching prospect the other team will offer for them and move on.

having them on our team serves no purpose other than diminishing their value.

What skill are you referring to, that would be better suited on a different team as opposed to our team?

a guy who can hit very well, but not field...we have a lot of those

another team lacking a DH would most likely give some type of minor league arm for that

He's worth some type of minor league arm. Probably not the type you think Mo could have gotten for him.

[cardsfantx]

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb- ... f-for-now/

MLB trade deadline: Ranking top 20 trade candidates

3. Jordan Montgomery, LHP, Cardinals
Here's hoping Montgomery is OK with living out of hotels. He was traded last summer as part of a challenge deal involving Harrison Bader and the Yankees. Now, he could be moved again this deadline, just months before hitting the open market. Montgomery doesn't have flashy stuff by any means, but he should be in demand. He's an above-average left-hander who is on pace for his third consecutive 30-plus start season. Those don't grow on trees. Even if they did, those trees would probably be cleared to make room for a strip mall. Potential suitors: Dodgers, Orioles, Phillies

5. Paul DeJong, SS, Cardinals
Here's a most unexpected sentence: DeJong looks like the best shortstop target available this deadline. How did we get here? Through a few surprising developments, including Tim Anderson's poor season and DeJong's resurgence after several down years. We're not so sure the latter is built to last. DeJong is hitting the ball hard more frequently than he has in some time, but there are a lot of iffy aspects to be found under the hood. To wit, his whiff rate remains on the wrong side of 30%, and he continues to chase outside of the zone as often as he has since his rookie year. His home run rate also looks unsustainable given his historical norms and his current exit-velocity profile. We're not trying to be overly negative here; it's just the reality of the situation. With all that written, DeJong has produced top-line results so far this season, and his glovework gives him a wider berth than the normal player. We're just not sure we'd want to bet on him going forward (his contract contains two additional club options), which makes him more of a rental in our eyes. Potential suitors: Dodgers, Brewers, Mariners

15. Jordan Hicks, RHP, Cardinals
Hicks looked like he was on the cusp of being designated for assignment as recently as May 5, when his ERA peaked at 7.62. He's since turned his season around in dazzling fashion -- to the degree that he's on pace to finish with an ERA+ north of 100 for the first time since 2019. Hicks still has as much arm strength as anyone or anything else in Creation, as well as a sweeper that has generated more than 50% whiffs so far this season. He's an impending free agent, so the Cardinals don't have to proceed with a larger teardown to justify moving him at the deadline. Potential suitors: Dodgers, Blue Jays, Rangers

[dmarx114]

The Cardinals have the 5th highest payroll allocation to starting pitching in baseball, and 26th in starter ERA

If that doesn't spell out how poorly Mo has mismanaged funds...

I think it speaks more to the abysmal player development (especially starting pitching), which forces them to buy pitchers on the open market.

It's impossible to have successful roster management if you're not building a core from within.

That definitely is a major factor but you would think if you paid 77 Million on a rotation you'd have at least a competent set of arms. They have an abysmal staff.

Monty has been very good.

Mikolas and Flaherty have had similar seasons. Both have been great when they are on, but terrible when they are off.

The major problem has been the combination of Waino, Libby, Matz, and Woodford. 40% of our games have practically been unwinnable. Disappointing that all 4 guys bombed.

Yeah Monty has been good

But Mikolas and Flaherty have basically been number 4 starters on contenders, number 3 starters on a bad team. They're guys who if they were on a playoff team, would be in competition to pitch game 4 of a 7 game series.

And the rest of the staff like you said have just not been major league pitchers this year.

It's impossible to carry a staff that badly and win in the majors. Add on to the fact their bullpen is even worse.

Yeah, they really have been. Especially in close games. The pitching staff as a whole needs to be completely rebuilt.

Mo is going to have to be creative in trades. First at the deadline on the sell side, and then in the off season on the buy side.

He knows he will be out of a job if 2024 is similar to 2023.

[cardsfantx]

I would think other teams are aware of Burleson and Baker's value, no?

yes correct.

and they serve a need, just not with our team. we have no place for them. look at Burleson's stats in the minors before we ever brought him up...that's valuable for a team that needs his particular skill and could have brought something back our team could use in return (minor league arm).

you get the best pitching prospect the other team will offer for them and move on.

having them on our team serves no purpose other than diminishing their value.

What skill are you referring to, that would be better suited on a different team as opposed to our team?

a guy who can hit very well, but not field...we have a lot of those

another team lacking a DH would most likely give some type of minor league arm for that

He's worth some type of minor league arm. Probably not the type you think Mo could have gotten for him.

geez man, BAS is gone so you have to find someone else to argue with?

when and where did I say what type of arm I think we could have gotten? no [expletive] where

you get the best arm in the minors a team is willing to part with

he and baker are wasting space on this roster, so you need to get a minor league arm for them