Lefty conundrum

Post by **planet planet** » March 6 07, 10:12 am

It sounds like the Cards are only going north with two lefties in the bullpen with the competition limited to Rincon and Johnson.

From Goold's Birdland blog:

Same with lefty Tyler Johnson, who made a successful first spring appearance Sunday, despite neither having logged a full season in the majors.

The same cannot be said with Ricardo Rincon. The lefty specialist, and one of the game’s best at stranding inherited runners, threw his second scoreless inning in relief Monday and has shown not only a healthy arm but a live arm throughout spring training. Yet, the comments about his outing are less forgiving, more critical.

It’s all about the track record.

What Kinney and Johnson did for the Cardinals in October has earned some slack. Both relievers are breaking ball-based arms and breaking balls developer later in spring than other pitches. In each of his appearances this spring, Kinney has allowed three hits, three runs and a walk. La Russa called him “out of whack.” Duncan stressed that he, like Johnson, is not going to be “judged” this early in camp.

“I’ll judge him when he’s throwing his breaking ball for strikes,” Duncan said.

Rincon, absent from October, has been greeted with a different tone.

Signed to a two-year deal before last season, Rincon was a late arrival to camp because of visa issues. He threw a couple times and then jetted for the World Baseball Classic. He returned, threw in some regular-season games and then was shutdown in April for shoulder and elbow surgeries. The Cardinals believe he was injured when he arrived and did not let on.

His absence is one reason why Johnson emerged.

Duncan has called Rincon’s outings “encouraging” because of his clear health. La Russa quickly pointed out that he got away with a few mistakes and had a guy bunt against him in the first inning he threw. On Monday, La Russa allowed that Rincon had “added some velocity. His stuff keeps improving.”

“I think what you do is you really try to take you best team, your best pitching staff,” said Duncan, when asked if Rincon’s contract breaks all ties when it comes to filling out the bullpen. “And if you feel that (Rincon) is the best then you take him.”

***

Link

JL21 · Post by **JL21** » March 6 07, 10:23 am

Very interesting. No mention of Flores? I would assume that Flores is a lock, though I sort of wish he wasn't. And that's primarily because of the upside of Johnson and the aforementioned track record of Rincon.

Important to keep in mind about Kinney.... October heroics aside, Kinney is still a former indy league arm with all of 25 MLB innings under his belt. He's got the stuff, at his best, to serve as a guy that can get both RHB's and LHB's out. There's certainly no guarantee that he can duplicate his September/October success. It would be a humongous benefit if he can duplicate it, but there's no certainty.

jagtrader · Post by **jagtrader** » March 6 07, 10:27 am

The Cards will do one of three things:

1. Trade Rincon or Johnson
2. Demote Johnson
3. Carry three lefties

No. 3 seems least likely.

Jocephus · Post by **Jocephus** » March 6 07, 10:33 am

seems like they would trade rincon...weren't they pzzed off last year?...they thought he was hurt...and maybe he could, because of his track record, get more in return...even if it still is little...though, i would imagine tj or flores would be more attractive as they are younger and cheaper

JL21 · Post by **JL21** » March 6 07, 10:33 am

Johnson is the logical choice because he's got options left, correct? And Flores doesn't?

I can't imagine what dealing either would net in a trade. That's the type of deal that brings you the Aaron Mileseses of the world.

The overall health of the team makes the three lefty possibility even more sticky. If you need to have lots of replacements available for Edmonds, Eckstein, perhaps Kennedy, and Encarnacion (let alone Isringhausen), you can't waste extra spots on a luxury like a third lefty.

Jocephus · Post by **Jocephus** » March 6 07, 10:37 am

RC21 wrote:
I can't imagine what dealing either would net in a trade.

vernon wells, alex gordon, brian mccann, zumaya....for instance

clement · Post by **clement** » March 6 07, 10:37 am

Jocephus wrote:seems like they would trade rincon...weren't they pzzed off last year?...they thought he was hurt...and maybe he could, because of his track record, get more in return...even if it still is little...though, i would imagine tj or flores would be more attractive as they are younger and cheaper

If they decide they'd really prefer to go with Johnson and Flores, I imagine they'd be content to just give him away (with the contract of course).

Jocephus · Post by **Jocephus** » March 6 07, 10:38 am

clement wrote:
Jocephus wrote:seems like they would trade rincon...weren't they pzzed off last year?...they thought he was hurt...and maybe he could, because of his track record, get more in return...even if it still is little...though, i would imagine tj or flores would be more attractive as they are younger and cheaper
If they decide they'd really prefer to go with Johnson and Flores, I imagine they'd be content to just give him away (with the contract of course).

yea, definitely possible.

i dunno, seems like they WANT to go with tj and flores...and even if they have mediocre springs and rincon has a great one...i just get the feeling (no proof) they don't like/want rincon...and would gladly ship him out

JL21 · Post by **JL21** » March 6 07, 10:40 am

I guess I could see Rincon as part of a package to Philly to get Lieber. Philly's 'pen looks awfully inept, particularly from the left side. Not that Rincon alone would get Lieber, just that I could see him being a mildly attractive throw-in.

The question is, will they see the need for Lieber? At this point, I'd assume that four of the spots are locked up, and the fifth is on the way when Mulder returns.

clement · Post by **clement** » March 6 07, 10:42 am

Jocephus wrote:i just get the feeling (no proof) they don't like/want rincon...and would gladly ship him out

I have the same feeling. Seems like Rincon pissed Tony/Dunc off very early last year (visa problems, hiding injury?) and they haven't gotten over that. And let's face it, it's Ricardo Rincon, not Ricardo Rolen.